Joinery Question

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berry
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Joinery Question

Post by berry »

I'm building a dog kennel or crate for a customer. He chose a wooden structure and gave me a specific design.

My question if about how to join the stiles/corners of the kennel. I was thinking a rabbet and gluing the corner pieces together but when the customer saw it today he was clearly concerned about the size. A rabbet joint at each end would mean it's an inch smaller so I'm debating between biscuits or a spline joint.

The view in both pics is from the top. The mechanical pencil shows the dowel joint I used to attached the side rails. The yellow pencil is the joint in question. In the 2nd pic I roughly laid out for a spline.
joinerya458.jpg
joinerya458.jpg (53.42 KiB) Viewed 3944 times
joineryb459.jpg
joineryb459.jpg (43.05 KiB) Viewed 3944 times
I'm pretty sure the spline will be stronger, but does it need to be? And the biscuit, quicker - but will be be strong enough?

And of course there may be other solutions so throw them out there.

Both the bottom and top panels will be screwed into position and covered with flush plugs. The finish is painted.

Thanks for reading and Happy New Year.
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reible
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Re: Joinery Question

Post by reible »

Since it is the new year I would opt to do what I might have done in the old year. I would use a combo of biscuits and kreg screws. While either of these would/could work why not combine them once in a while?

Other options would be a larger square block in the corner with both of your current pieces attached to that, there by giving you just a little more size.... Again the attachment can be any number of methods including the ones mentioned above.

Another option is a "L" shaped piece on the outsides of the parts with the attachment again being pretty much anything you want. This too would add a small amount of size to the cage.

The other option which I have used before with great success is to got some loose pin hinges and put them on the outside or inside and then the cage can be broken down by means of removing the hinge pins. I like to use brass rod and bend in to a "L" shape so the pins can be removed by hand.

While I could go on I think its time to let someone else come up with a few ideas for you.

Ed
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jsburger
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Re: Joinery Question

Post by jsburger »

berry wrote:I'm building a dog kennel or crate for a customer. He chose a wooden structure and gave me a specific design.

My question if about how to join the stiles/corners of the kennel. I was thinking a rabbet and gluing the corner pieces together but when the customer saw it today he was clearly concerned about the size. A rabbet joint at each end would mean it's an inch smaller so I'm debating between biscuits or a spline joint.

The view in both pics is from the top. The mechanical pencil shows the dowel joint I used to attached the side rails. The yellow pencil is the joint in question. In the 2nd pic I roughly laid out for a spline.
joinerya458.jpg
joineryb459.jpg
I'm pretty sure the spline will be stronger, but does it need to be? And the biscuit, quicker - but will be be strong enough?

And of course there may be other solutions so throw them out there.

Both the bottom and top panels will be screwed into position and covered with flush plugs. The finish is painted.

Thanks for reading and Happy New Year.
Well, I don't think you can get too strong. :) A spline joint might not be as fast as biscuits just because you have to make the spline but buy how much. Why not use dowels like you did with the other joints. That should be just as strong as the other joints. I don't think you can get too strong. Something like that is likely to take a fair amount of abuse.
John & Mary Burger
Eagle's Lair Woodshop
Hooper, UT
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berry
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Re: Joinery Question

Post by berry »

Well, I don't think you can get too strong. :) A spline joint might not be as fast as biscuits just because you have to make the spline but buy how much. Why not use dowels like you did with the other joints. That should be just as strong as the other joints. I don't think you can get too strong. Something like that is likely to take a fair amount of abuse.[/quote]

The reason I decided against dowels is that: a) both the top and bottom rails now have 3 dowels each and b) I used 2" dowels, over drilling about 1/8" in the 1.5" stock so by drilling from the other direction I'll run right into my first set.
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jsburger
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Re: Joinery Question

Post by jsburger »

berry wrote:Well, I don't think you can get too strong. :) A spline joint might not be as fast as biscuits just because you have to make the spline but buy how much. Why not use dowels like you did with the other joints. That should be just as strong as the other joints. I don't think you can get too strong. Something like that is likely to take a fair amount of abuse.
The reason I decided against dowels is that: a) both the top and bottom rails now have 3 dowels each and b) I used 2" dowels, over drilling about 1/8" in the 1.5" stock so by drilling from the other direction I'll run right into my first set.[/quote]

Hmmm, change the spacing, cut the dowels shorter? :confused:
John & Mary Burger
Eagle's Lair Woodshop
Hooper, UT
ERLover
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Re: Joinery Question

Post by ERLover »

From my experience you would not have to do nothing other then a good glue joint with the 2 pieces. Approx 50% of a dowel joint wound be on end grain, to some degree. A spline would be better, but dont think you need it.
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Bruce
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Re: Joinery Question

Post by Bruce »

What about threaded inserts and bolts. I know you didn't specify knock down capability, but that might be a plus for the customer. Otherwise, I like the pocket screw idea.
Jacob
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Re: Joinery Question

Post by Jacob »

If you have a biscuit cutter, use it.
Based on what you show in the picture, that seems to me a natural application.
Two biscuits along the line and some glue all along should hold this part 'for ever'.
I am surprised that your customer gets involved with that much detail.
And this is for a dog kennel????? :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:
Happy New Year.
ERLover
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Re: Joinery Question

Post by ERLover »

I did not mention this but thought about it when I made my first post here. Having many dogs, but they were kenneled and always 2 or 3, play mates. I know this is a commission job, but some bored/grated dogs want to chew, so I would not make a grate for a dog that was going to be in it for more then a few hours out of wood, unless I knew my dog was not a chewer. I guess thats the owners call though.
KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERIENCE EQUALS WISDOM. Albert Einstein
The Greatness officially starts :D :D :D :D :D :D
Greenie, Grayling, SS stand alone BS and BS SPT, jointer and belt sander, 3 Ers with Speed Changers. I think those 3 cover my ER needs, and space for them. :)
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berry
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Re: Joinery Question

Post by berry »

ERLover wrote:I did not mention this but thought about it when I made my first post here. Having many dogs, but they were kenneled and always 2 or 3, play mates. I know this is a commission job, but some bored/grated dogs want to chew, so I would not make a grate for a dog that was going to be in it for more then a few hours out of wood, unless I knew my dog was not a chewer. I guess thats the owners call though.
I've had labs forever and warned the customer that a 'chewer' and a wooden kennel was a recipe for disaster and urged him to purchase a wire or plastic unit. He insisted he wanted a kennel to match his kitchen decor. Further, I warned him that painting the inside of the unit was not a good idea, again because of a 'chewer'. He did accept my suggestion that we add a thin sheet of acrylic on top of the pw bottom, in the event of a biological accident.
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