Raised panel bits on MK7

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adrianpglover
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Raised panel bits on MK7

Post by adrianpglover »

I've had my Mark 7 for about a year now. My father in law gave me a poorly maintained bottom end shaper from 1990 (Jet model JWS-18, not the HO model, but looks just like a G0510Z) when we visited at Christmas, along with a handful of cutters, mostly unused. Included in this were three or four different raised panel cutters with a 5" diameter. I'm wondering if I can use these on my MK7 and what limitations there might be.

I don't have any shaper specific items other than what comes with the MK7, so no shaper fence, no headstock mounted feather board, etc. I'm not sure that cutters of this size would even fit within the hole of the SS shaper fence. I've been toying with the idea of mounting the split fence from the Jet shaper to a board or piece of 1/2" plexi that I could then mount to the SS table, but not sure what that will buy me for using with raised panel bits.

What I'm thinking is that I should be able to run a raised panel bit using the appropriate large can guard around the cutter so that nothing of the cutter is exposed, then use the pin routing with a rub collar method to cut the profile, likely in 2-3 passes to get a cleaner final cut. I'm thinking that I could do either over or under arm method by having the cutter mounted above the table facing down (face side of the panel facing up at me), and bring the cutter closer to the board in successive passes. I realize I likely could also put an aux table on and bury the bit in this, but if I can do this safely without the extra work of an aux table then I'd like to go down that path.

Thoughts?
Mark 7 (new 2020 - pre-COVID) | 12" planer (new 2020 - pre-COVID) | 11" bandsaw | 4" jointer
Grizzly G1023RLWX (new 2013) | Grizzly G0583Z (new 2012) | DeWALT DW618PK
Oneida Dust Deputy (on 5g bucket bolted to a 10g oil drum, used only with planer & jointer)
sehast
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Re: Raised panel bits on MK7

Post by sehast »

I have had good luck with these bits which are used for horizontal table routing.

https://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsit ... outer+bits

I built a table to set on top of the main table so the the bit is positioned in the headstock, horizontally, to the left and below the table. This picture shows it mounted on the right side end table and the main table set 90 degrees to it. It works but I have since used the main table in its normal position and positioned the bit to the left of it.



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adrianpglover
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Re: Raised panel bits on MK7

Post by adrianpglover »

Okay, so you're using a vertical router bit.

Now that I've partially setup my MK7 in the over table shaping setup I see that the pins aren't far enough apart to handle this cutter. So it does seem like I'll need some kind of split fence to use these cutters. I like the fence option more anyway as I can clamp boards and feather boards to it to keep the work held down.
Mark 7 (new 2020 - pre-COVID) | 12" planer (new 2020 - pre-COVID) | 11" bandsaw | 4" jointer
Grizzly G1023RLWX (new 2013) | Grizzly G0583Z (new 2012) | DeWALT DW618PK
Oneida Dust Deputy (on 5g bucket bolted to a 10g oil drum, used only with planer & jointer)
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JPG
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Re: Raised panel bits on MK7

Post by JPG »

A disadvantage to the 'face' side up with the cutter above is that digging in can occur(NOT a trivial concern with large cutters).
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10
E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
thunderbirdbat
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Re: Raised panel bits on MK7

Post by thunderbirdbat »

I think that the larger cutter bits is where the SS router set up excels. The larger the cutter the slower the router speed used. Many routers do not slow down enough for the very large bits and do not have the power to make smooth cuts using them. I have found many different speed charts online but they are basically the same. Here is one on Rockler's site stating that 2 1/2" - 3 1/2" should be run at 8000 to 12000 RPM (https://www.rockler.com/learn/router-bit-speed). The SS MK7 top speed of 10000 RPM is right in the middle of this range. For even larger bits than 3 1/2" I personally would use the 8000 RPM as a maximum speed. I would experiment with different speeds to get the best cut quality for the type of wood used with that particular cutter. Above or below table routing is a personal preference but make sure the quill is locked as you do not want it to move while cutting.
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reible
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Re: Raised panel bits on MK7

Post by reible »

I would tread lightly with a very large bit. For one thing the really large bits will not fit within the table insert. A larger insert hole could be made but you will still not have all the space required to have it go below the surface. You can make a secondary top to take care of this concern. If you do this make sure you get a stop collar to fit the quill so it can't ever get lowered into the table.

Next you never want to trap the work piece between a rock and hard place. It might not seem that important until and if things go wrong but then it more then likely to late. For this reason I would stay with the bit coming up through the table rather then in drill press mode.

I think making a dedicated fence, maybe like an "H" would work well. You can attach it to the normal rip fence and have the cutout for the bit so it is contained in the H except for the portion cutting. This could also be used to remove some of the chips and dust. This is my go to method for this and it works pretty well.

Ed
{Knight of the Shopsmith} [Hero's don't wear capes, they wear dog tags]
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rjent
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Re: Raised panel bits on MK7

Post by rjent »

I use my Mark 7/VII all the time for making raised panel doors. I even built a router fence that helps a bunch with my ToolQuest fixturing system. Here are some pictures. I also use the same fence for the large bit for the floating panel but in drill press mode and slowed down to 6000 or less.

Works perfect.

I will start a new thread on not only this fence, but on the ToolQuest system itself. Absolutely an awesome idea and concept....

Here is a link to Dennis's rollout if you haven't seen it yet ....
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=24678
Attachments
Exploded view
Exploded view
routerfence002.jpg (91.9 KiB) Viewed 1958 times
Bookmatched ToolQuest sliding fixture
Bookmatched ToolQuest sliding fixture
routerfence003.jpg (85.71 KiB) Viewed 1958 times
In place ready to go.
In place ready to go.
routerfence010.jpg (57.23 KiB) Viewed 1958 times
Another Exploded view
Another Exploded view
routerfence004.jpg (59.2 KiB) Viewed 1958 times
Dick
1965 Mark VII S/N 407684
1951 10 ER S/N ER 44570 -- Reborn 9/16/14
1950 10 ER S/N ER 33479 Reborn July 2016
1950 10 ER S/N ER 39671
1951 jigsaw X 2
1951 !0 ER #3 in rebuild
500, Jointer, Bsaw, Bsander, Planer
2014 Mark 7 W/Lift assist - 14 4" Jointer - DC3300
And a plethora of small stuff .....

"The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." - Benjamin Franklin
adrianpglover
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Re: Raised panel bits on MK7

Post by adrianpglover »

@rjent - That's an interesting setup. What advantages does this system give you over just getting a T-slot cutter router bit from Rockler/Woodcraft/etc and closet bolts to match the slot size? I see that there's a bit of a tapered profile on the slot, but wondering what the advantage of it is.

Also, how do you adjust the outfeed fence separate from the infeed fence for full profile cutters?
Mark 7 (new 2020 - pre-COVID) | 12" planer (new 2020 - pre-COVID) | 11" bandsaw | 4" jointer
Grizzly G1023RLWX (new 2013) | Grizzly G0583Z (new 2012) | DeWALT DW618PK
Oneida Dust Deputy (on 5g bucket bolted to a 10g oil drum, used only with planer & jointer)
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JPG
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Re: Raised panel bits on MK7

Post by JPG »

adrianpglover wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:43 am . . . I see that there's a bit of a tapered profile on the slot, but wondering what the advantage of it is.

Also, how do you adjust the outfeed fence separate from the infeed fence for full profile cutters?
#1 I anxiously await the answer from Dennis. I have my opinion on why. Contact area is a part of that. Tapers is another.

#2 Shims?
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10
E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
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rjent
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Re: Raised panel bits on MK7

Post by rjent »

adrianpglover wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:43 am @rjent - That's an interesting setup. What advantages does this system give you over just getting a T-slot cutter router bit from Rockler/Woodcraft/etc and closet bolts to match the slot size? I see that there's a bit of a tapered profile on the slot, but wondering what the advantage of it is.

Also, how do you adjust the outfeed fence separate from the infeed fence for full profile cutters?
Thanks for the response. I made that fence system because I use the Mark VII (60's) as well as the Mark 7 under and over table routing shaping and I wanted a fence that worked on both. I have the table "cover" for the M7 made to utilize the tslots of the 520 table system to lock it down and I made another table "cover" for the M VII utilizing the two threaded holes in the insert to secure it to the smaller table of the Mark VII. The center of the fence is of course going to be at different places on both machines so I wanted a fence to be able to accommodate that difference. There is adjustment slots on the angle bracket that allows lateral movement and then the blocks adjust infinitely as well. It makes it flexible enough to allow the over table large bit for the floating panels as well as moving the block narrow (like the SS fence) to use normal router and shaper bits.
All of that said, I wanted a smooth sliding adjustment that I have never found in "T" slot configurations. The ToolQuest fixture nuts are smooth as glass with no play, and easy adjustment. Dennis tells me the shape is for holding power as well as ease of moving the the provisioning slot.

I am working on utilizing the same fence (down to the angle bracket) on the bandsaw table as well. 10ER's are my next victim. :)
Hope that helps
Dick
1965 Mark VII S/N 407684
1951 10 ER S/N ER 44570 -- Reborn 9/16/14
1950 10 ER S/N ER 33479 Reborn July 2016
1950 10 ER S/N ER 39671
1951 jigsaw X 2
1951 !0 ER #3 in rebuild
500, Jointer, Bsaw, Bsander, Planer
2014 Mark 7 W/Lift assist - 14 4" Jointer - DC3300
And a plethora of small stuff .....

"The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." - Benjamin Franklin
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