I am a bit confused on this one from woodpecker .

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DLB
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Re: I am a bit confused on this one from woodpecker .

Post by DLB »

RFGuy wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 11:05 am Having taken the plunge (pun intended) a year ago, I can say it is one of those things where you don't fully appreciate it until you have it. If you have never used a tracksaw you may understand the high level principles of it, but until you use it firsthand you won't fully understand/appreciate the nuances of what you can do with it. To me, what a tracksaw gives is convenience. Working with sheet goods is a PIA without one. If you already have a cabinetmaker grade tablesaw in your shop for sheet goods, then continue to use it and enjoy it. For the rest of us a tracksaw is money well spent for our small shops...however the accessories to go with the tracksaw will depend on your budget.
Can I ask brand and model, and whether you are happy with that choice after a year's use?

- David
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Re: I am a bit confused on this one from woodpecker .

Post by RFGuy »

DLB wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 2:05 pm Can I ask brand and model, and whether you are happy with that choice after a year's use?

- David
David,

Brenda brings up a good point on compatibility between certain brands and aftermarket accessories. I was considering Festool, DeWalt, Triton and Makita before my purchase. From TSO products website, their rail square is only compatible with Festool, Makita and Triton guide rails (other brands have different extrusions for their tracks). So, I debated on these brands for a while and finally bit the bullet and went with Festool. The primary reason for me was to get onto the Festool system where items can work together, e.g. I also bought a Festool plunge router. I haven't gotten it yet, but there is an adapter to attach the router to the tracksaw track (I think reible showed this in a thread not too long ago - link below). One of the things you can do with this is easily make shelf pins, e.g. in bookcases or cabinets (I have some projects for this coming up in my house). IF cost is a primary concern, then I would definitely get the Makita tracksaw (IMHO). My Dad has the Makita and loves it. One thing to consider with other brands is how they hookup. I know my Dad had some initial trouble with the dust hose hookup. I think Makita has a special adapter meant for hookup to a Makita shop vac. Who owns the Makita shop vac??? I believe he found a 3rd party adapter to work. Since I bought a Festool tracksaw AND the Festool vacuum everything works together very well. I must say the Festool vacuum hose is the best shop hose I have ever used. I think it is braided nylon on the exterior so it slides effortlessly across the track (getting a dust hose stuck on a track or plywood edge is no fun when using a tracksaw). I have the Festool TS 55 REQ (corded) and a couple of tracks. Honestly, the biggest difference between Festool and other brands is when it comes to sales pricing. Many of the base tools on Festool are higher in price, but not by a huge premium (<20%). However, you get a 3 year exceptional warranty with it. However, there are frequently sales on other brands, e.g. I think my Dad got his tracksaw and track for the same price as what the tracksaw alone was selling for at the time. On top of this, Amazon screwed up and instead of sending him the extra track that he purchased, they sent him an additional tracksaw AND track! So, if you buy it on sale, and get an Amazon special (screw-up), then tracksaws can be really cheap! :) The fact that Festool never really has any promotional sales is what makes other brands look so much cheaper by comparison.

I only have the Woodpeckers tracksaw square so far. Honestly, I am not sure that I like it. Functionally it works well, but it is HEAVY and makes the track rather unwieldy to pickup and get in place without it wanting to crash to the ground. I don't know how the other rail squares compare. It is a solid block of aluminum whereas some other brands have voids to lower the weight. I bought my Dad the TSO one as a gift, so if I ever get to travel again, I'll check his out for comparison. Eventually I will get the parallel guides, but the price of the Woodpecker one gives me A LOT of heartburn...

P.S. I am very happy with my Festool purchases, though the prices were very painful at the time. My various Woodpecker purchases are hits and misses unfortunately (caveat emptor). :(

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reible
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Re: I am a bit confused on this one from woodpecker .

Post by reible »

While I have mostly addressed cutting up sheet goods the track saws also are great for those of you who buy S2S lumber. Or lumber with live edges that you want to get rid of. The track is a straight line so you can place it on the board and decide just where you want to cut away and what you want to keep. Place where you get the desired piece and then rip away the waste and you are left with a straight edge that you can then clean up with a jointer if needed or use to go against a table saw rip fence or just use the track saw again to get the width you want.

Like wise if you make a table top it is common to leave the boards long and trim after glue-up. A track saw normally cuts a much nicer edge then a run of the mill circular saw so this is also a time saver getting to a finished edge.

If I happen to have my my MFT set up and I need to cut some lumber I do that rather then going back to a table saw. So no they are not limited to sheet goods. In fact I have seen flooring being cut this way rather then using a miter saw, not sure of the advantages of that but if you are set up you can just go with what you need to do and get accurate cuts. Just like on table saws you can set stops and have repeat cuts to/from those stops.

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Re: I am a bit confused on this one from woodpecker .

Post by twistsol »

A couple of selling points for me is that my Festool kit is very portable. I do a lot of my work at my kids' and other relatives' houses so being able to bring nearly an entire shop with me is a huge win.

The other is that a track saw is a great compliment to a ShopSmith.
Dados are are either impossible or a multi cut process with a tack saw. The ShopSmith is a great tool for those.

Ripping small or narrow parts is difficult with a track saw. I haven't found a reliable way to hold narrow pieces to cut them safely and efficiently. The narrow guides on the Woodpecker parallel guides are great to get the track in the right position but provide no way to help keep the track or workpiece in place.
Thanks much,

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Re: I am a bit confused on this one from woodpecker .

Post by RFGuy »

Since we kind of got topic-adjacent talking about tracksaws on this thread, thought I would share this one. Apparently Festool has filed patents for a trackless tracksaw. Yes, that is right, because their parent company acquired Shaper Origin, it looks like they are trying to incorporate the vision tech SO onto a Festool saw to make a trackless tracksaw. Sound too good to be true?!?! Fast-forward to about 1:30 in video below.



Last edited by RFGuy on Tue May 18, 2021 3:09 pm, edited 4 times in total.
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
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Re: I am a bit confused on this one from woodpecker .

Post by jsburger »

I guess I would say how did they find this out before Festool announced it? Kind of a hokey video.
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Re: I am a bit confused on this one from woodpecker .

Post by bainin »

My subaru does that...i just need to mount my circular saw below the front bumper !
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Re: I am a bit confused on this one from woodpecker .

Post by RFGuy »

jsburger wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 8:57 pm I guess I would say how did they find this out before Festool announced it? Kind of a hokey video.
John,

This is actually quite common. Market analysts or YouTube trolls search for patents from a particular brand and then put out videos/articles about what they found. Sometimes this happens for years before a particular product even comes to market. In this case, as the video showed they are referencing a fairly recent patent from Festool. You can read the patent below. I didn't read the whole thing, but it appears that they intend to add a couple of markers to a sheet of plywood with a coordinate system overlayed onto it and the trackless tracksaw can see the markers and adjust cut to be between them. As the video pointed out it does seem to be an extension of their SO acquisition, but that is just speculation based on what can be seen in this patent. This product may never come to market, but then again it might...I know they were joking in the video about Festool prices, etc., but this patent is VERY real.
US20200356075A1-compressed.pdf
(905.96 KiB) Downloaded 114 times
Festool_patent.jpg
Festool_patent.jpg (41.99 KiB) Viewed 1843 times
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
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Re: I am a bit confused on this one from woodpecker .

Post by edma194 »

Now the saw guides itself. Is woodworking becoming a spectator hobby while the tools do all the work by themselves?
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Re: I am a bit confused on this one from woodpecker .

Post by RFGuy »

edma194 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 9:04 am Now the saw guides itself. Is woodworking becoming a spectator hobby while the tools do all the work by themselves?
Saw doesn't guide itself...you have to push it just like you have to push and maneuver the Shaper Origin (SO) around the workpiece. IF this is what the patent is and it works, you would push the saw across the plywood without needing a track to get a straight line. The SO uses tape with dominos painted on it to map out a visual space for the workpiece. From this patent, presumably you would put two markers on the workpiece, one on each side, to mark where the cut line should be. Then the user pushes the saw to cut that line. I believe for an SO the user is the coarse movement and the tool has a fine control to make sure the cut is where it should be. Presumably the saw in this patent would have to have some ability to alter the cut to maintain it, but how are they going to do that and not have a kickback or binding???

I delved a little more into the patent and as you can see below the patent applies to devices with a guide rail (as in prior art), but then they go on to describe how this patent applies for a device WITHOUT a guide rail. Not sure how they are going to get that straight line cut, but it does appear they intend to cut off rail here:

From the patent:
For example , workpiece W is located in a working
space R , see FIG . 1. The workpiece W is to be machined
along the target working line AL , for example , a workpiece
part W1 is to be cut off from a workpiece part W2 . In order
to make a straight saw cut , according to the prior art , a guide ruler or a guide rail would be placed on an upper flat side of
the workpiece WO , along which the hand - held power tool
20 is to be guided . This is easily possible with the hand - held
power tool 20 , for example by means of the guide contours
on the guide surface 31 , which are not explained in detail , for engagement in the guide rail , which is also not shown , but this is not absolutely necessary with the principle explained below .


[ 0162 ] To determine the target working line AL , for
example , the workpiece markers M1 and M2 , which are at
a distance from each other and between which the target working line AL , presently a straight line , should extend , are
sufficient . For example , the workpiece markers M1 and M2
are line markers or dot markers on the upper flat side WO . With its underside , the lower flat side WO , the workpiece rests for example on a base , in particular on a work table , bearing blocks or the like . The working line AL is to be
executed starting from a workpiece front side WS to the opposite workpiece front side between the longitudinal workpiece sides WLR and WLL
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
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