Hanging A Plate Rack

[berry]

I have this problem and I’m looking for suggestions.

I’ve just finished building a plate cabinet. This is an open cabinet for dinnerware, glasses, and cups - all the usual stuff. It has 4 shelves, 38” wide, 30” high and 1 foot deep, cherry and birch ply. (The project is similar to, but not the same as a plate rack in Woodsmith (Vol.21 No.124)

I plan to mount it, using cleats, over the dishwasher (on an outside wall).

Here’s the rub. The outer walls of this home are brick, glued to the brick is 1 1/8” Styrofoam insulation and right over that is the dry wall! I’ve opened a horizontal ‘window’, 4” x 43” and all that’s there is brick and mortar. There must be 2 x 2 nailers running horizontally but I missed them when I opened my ‘window’.

So I’m wondering what’s the best method for securing the wall cleat? My current plan is to use Liquid Nails. I thought about using a hammer drill and masonry bit and a masonry lead molly, but I’m concerned about cracking the wall. I could hang it from the joists but it wasn’t designed that way so it’ll look pretty yucky if I use a threaded rod to hold it up.

Still I’m sure you clever folks with have suggestions. If I haven’t been clear about this be sure to ask questions, and that’s for giving this some thought.

Berry

[charlese]

Berry, You've presented yourself , and us, with an interesting problem. My experience with brick houses was in South Texas - a far cry from anywhere in Minnesota. But building codes in the U.S. are similar and here is how they were built in TX; The house was first built as any wood framed house, there was plasticized Styrofoam nailed onto the outside of the studs (with 16" spacing). There were metal strips attached to the studs that protruded through the Styrofoam. The bricks were held about 1/2" away from the Styrofoam by these metal strips that also stabilized the bricks. A friend of mine from Iowa told me that was the same type of construction he had in Iowa, except they used chip board instead of Styrofoam and the chip board sheathing was covered with a "house wrap". When it rains, water will seep through the bricks/mortar and drip (run) down the inside of the brick. That is the reason they make a space between outside brick walls and sheathing, Codes also call for weep holes at the bottom of brick walls. Look at the bottom coarse of bricks and see if you have weep holes (openings between every fourth or fifth brick). If so, leave them open. Some homeowners have filled these openings with mortar or caulk- a bad idea!

Seems to me there has to be studs (they run vertically) inside of the Sheetrock. Probably 2X4s rather than 2X2s. These could be metal, but probably are wood. My advice is to get hold of a stud finder and locate the studs. They should be at 16" centers. As your cabinet is 38" wide you should be able to find two studs within the confines of where you want to locate the project. If not, you may have to install a longer base ledger to the wall. Use 3" screws - decorate it, maybe with routed edges - and locate the cabinet somewhere along that ledger. If your cabinet will be off center of where the lower ledger will wind up, vary the length of the ledger to keep it even. If you can get two 3" screws into studs, you can use drywall mollys to keep the ends from movement.

[berry]

Charles – to clarify – the ‘window’ I cut out was through the ½”dry wall and then through 1 1/8” of Styrofoam, that’s when I hit brick. The outer wall is one layer of brick, not the two layers in most residential places. Unbelievable as it may sound, there are no vertical studs on this wall. The trusses just rest on the brick wall. Remember my horizontal ‘window’ is 4” x 43” all I see is brick and mortar.

At this point my plan is to cut a 2 x 4 to fit the ‘window’ (I’m not sure what to call this piece? Is this what you’re calling a base ledger?) making it flush with the inside surface of the drywall using construction adhesive and a mechanical fasteners to attach it to the brick. (Someone at Wood magazine recommended Tapcon fasteners. They use a much smaller hole than traditional sleeve anchors.) Then I’d patch the drywall, paint, and attach the cleat to the patched wall.

Given that I’m working on an exterior wall I’m really afraid to use a hammer drill and large masonry bit. I’m going to try a trial with Tapcon tomorrow.
And someone recommend I email Ask This Old House. It may interest them? But I can’t see them coming to St. Paul in the winter, and coming on. Although you never know maybe they’d like to try ice fishing

Thanks for your input.

[charlese]

Geez! I mis-under stood for sure! In your first post, you mentioned you opened a window. I didn't realize you cut an opening in the Sheetrock!

Now I'm at a loss to make any recommendations. Your plan (to give a call to "This Old House" sounds like a winner!

The thing I called a base ledger would have been a strip of wood, probably 3/4"X 2 1/2"x how long you wanted it. I was thinking you would have one ledger behind the cabinet and another below it for added support.

Come to think about it - Maybe you could try something like this - (If it isn't too wild an idea): Make up a frame to fit your opening - 2x4s inside the opening, "against" the brick (the 1 1/2" thickness of the 2x4 should come out even with the outside edge of the Sheetrock) Before inserting the 2x4 frame, affix 4" boards to the 2x4s with screws. These should stand proud of the inside of the Sheetrock by 1/4". You can cut a 1/2" rabbet, 1/2" deep, in the outside edge of all of these 4" boards. (preferably prior to attaching them to the 2x4s) This will give you a 1/4" by 1/2" edge around your opening. You should be able to attach the 1/2" edge to the sheetrock/Styrofoam using mollys spaced at about 6 to 8" apart. The mollys should hold the frame in place without attaching it to the bricks.

Better yet, you can make 1/2" rabbets only 1/4" deep. that way the 2x4s won't touch the brick and will catch less moisture. When you attach the mollys, first drill a counter bore in the face of the board, 1/4" deep. This will allow you to use mollys and also plug the holes over the molly screws.

In any event, I recommend you place heavy plastic sheeting between the brick and the 2x4s. They sell this stuff at big box stores as it is used to cover the ground in crawl spaces.

Good Luck!!