straighting an edge

scottss · Post by **scottss** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:19 am

Ok I am curious how others go about straighting an edge of a board that is say 1" thick 9" wide and 84" long. Lets say there is quite a crown in the board but you could still get 7"-8" of good wood. Its alot to tackle on the jointer and long for the table saw. I had several boards last week like this and I ended up using my skillsaw and snapping a line cutting it and then jointing the edge. I don't own one of those long straight edge setups. I used to have a piece of plywood about 3" wide and 96" long that I would clamp to the board and push the skillsaw along it but couldn't find it this time. It would be nice to have the festool setup for this. I will be buying several more boards in the same condition and for the project I need 84" long.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:04 am

As I read your description, scott, you are dealing with a 1 to 2 inch crown. With this condition, I do just what you said.

Attach a straight edge (long piece of mdf, plywood, steel rule, whatever) and cutoff the most offending crown with a circular saw.

I have an 8' long piece of 1/4" x 3" aluminum that I keep for this purpose. In its original life it was used to level concrete walkways/driveways. It's not a milled edge but it is as straight as any 2x4 I might use. It has two holes that I sometime use to screw it to the stock being milled.

Using the same straight edge approach, I might then clean that edge with a router rather than the jointer.

I now have something I can work with on the table saw.

I have also eliminated the crown by snapping a chalk line and going to the bandsaw for that first trimming. Bandsaw throat size is often the limiting factor here.

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:43 am

To saw a straight edge you could make one of these. They can be any length you want. A 4 ft. one and an 8 ft one would be just right for a shop. You can hang them on a wall when not in use and they are out of the way. I use my 4 footer frequently. It's nothing more than a 1.5 inch aluminum angle iron screwed onto a piece of hardboard. You will have to use the SS to saw off part of the upright so that the circle saw won't hang up on it. After the aluminum is attached to the hardboard - just run the saw down the board while held against the aluminum and you have a straight edge that is exactly where the inside of your circle saw will pass. Using clamps you can mount this guide and precisely adjust your cutting line.

scottss · Post by **scottss** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:15 am

Thanks guys for your responses. I do like your idea Charlese and Dusty thanks as usual.

edflorence · Post by **edflorence** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:21 am

[quote="scottss"]Ok I am curious how others go about straighting an edge of a board that is say 1" thick 9" wide and 84" long. Lets say there is quite a crown in the board but you could still get 7"-8" of good wood. Its alot to tackle on the jointer and long for the table saw. QUOTE]

Scott]http://www.westerntool.com/product.htm?pid=430427[/url]

I use a piece of 4 inch wide 3/4 ply with a factory edge as the "reference" edge and roller stands for the infeed/outfeed tables. Its a quick and easy set up and the SS does the job just fine.

Hope this helps

Ed
Idaho Panhandle
MkV 500, DC 3300, bs, jointer

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:46 pm

scottss wrote:Ok I am curious how others go about straighting an edge of a board that is say 1" thick 9" wide and 84" long. Lets say there is quite a crown in the board but you could still get 7"-8" of good wood. Its alot to tackle on the jointer and long for the table saw. I had several boards last week like this and I ended up using my skillsaw and snapping a line cutting it and then jointing the edge. I don't own one of those long straight edge setups. I used to have a piece of plywood about 3" wide and 96" long that I would clamp to the board and push the skillsaw along it but couldn't find it this time. It would be nice to have the festool setup for this. I will be buying several more boards in the same condition and for the project I need 84" long.

Scottss
While there are many ways to accomplish this I think you mentioned one of the best, Festool. There is also the Ezguide system that parrots the Festool system only using your own saw.

I'm convinced the guide tools systems are the wave of the future and I really wish SS would consider offering one of these as they have the Sand Flee.

I have talked to cabinet shops, solid counter wholesalers and sheet good suppliers that have switched to guided tools systems and in every case they mentioned insurance and OSHA as being driving forces. Festool comes out of Europe where their equalvalant to our OSHA has made the common stationary machines almost a thing of the past. Europe is using guided saw systems, CNC and slidding fixtures to isolate the operator from any contact with the cutting tool.

Thud, that was me jumping off my soap box. Sorry!
Ed

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:02 pm

Gotta admit sliding tables are safe. With the junk that many of today's producers make and the untrained (no apprenticeship needed) hiring of workers. They need safety! Don't get me wrong, but sometimes OSHA gets a little carried away with safety at the expense of craftsmanship.

My first run in with OSHA is when they wanted us to either scrap our table saw, or affix it with a upper saw guard. At the time this seemed a ridiculous requirement. Now this feature is common, and almost completely accepted as necessary. There are some hold-outs not associated with a public entity - at least one person among us falls into that category.

MY SOAPBOX:
One of the very sad effects of adding safety is to further remove the craftsman further from his work.
Thank goodness this only applies to the use of power tools. OSHA has yet to make a bench chisel and a plane "more safe".
Pretty soon, if the trend continues, woodworkers will come in two categories: 1) Those that use computers to make a product and,
2)those that can appreciate the make up of wood, visualize, select the proper piece for the particular application, and feel the woodworking process.

Although OSHA was a pain in my rear during working times, sometimes they were funny! On the ceiling of our vehicle maintenance shop - 14 ft from the floor - we had an exhaust fan. They tried (and finally succeeded) to get us to put a grill over that fan. Our appeal was, If some idiot is going to get a 12 ft. stepladder and crawl up their to stick their hand in a moving fan, what can he expect? The fix was cheaper than the appeal over the matter! Some hardware cloth was all it took!

edflorence · Post by **edflorence** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:04 pm

Hi Ed...

I am interested in pursuing your thinking a bit further.

I'll admit right up front that I have never used a true "guided saw" set-up, but I have for many years used various straight edges and my trusty circular saw to cut sheet goods. It seems to me to be a great method of making smaller pieces out of one big and unwieldy sheet, but I think it might be a little less handy for a long rip cut along the edge of a solid wood board, as we are discussing. The table saw with fence seems like an easier set up in this case. Of course, my thinking on this might just be a case of this old dog not seeing the point of the new trick.

In any event, whether you do the job with the tablesaw or the guided circular saw, I don't see a whole lot of difference with regard to safety. In one case the workpiece can kick back and in the other the saw itself can kick back. Either is likely if the fence in one case or the guide in the other is misaligned. Can't say that I see what is inherently safer about the guided saw set up.

Thanks for giving me something interesting to think about!

Ed
Idaho Panhandle
MkV born as a 500 in '54, reborn as a 505 in 2004
DC 3300, bs, jointer

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:45 pm

Post #4 of this thread provides a very effective way of ripping a plank that has an eneven edge.

IMHO: Those posts that recommend a "guided circular saw" such as Festool's or the "Ezguide" are simply recommending commercialized versions of the same concept.

Yes, the Festool guide provides a track that the saw base rides in and it may be a bit more reliable but I don't see it as a lot safer. The saw can still come out of the track and become a hazard.

SAFETY IS ALWAYS AN ISSUE. WE ARE ALL WORKING WITH TOOLS THAT CAN DO SERIOUS DAMAGE. DON'T EVER FORGET THAT. LEARN HOW TO USE THEM CORRECTLY. WHEN A SETUP DOESN'T FEEL RIGHT - DON'T DO IT.

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:15 pm

edflorence wrote:Hi Ed...

I am interested in pursuing your thinking a bit further.

I'll admit right up front that I have never used a true "guided saw" set-up, but I have for many years used various straight edges and my trusty circular saw to cut sheet goods. It seems to me to be a great method of making smaller pieces out of one big and unwieldy sheet, but I think it might be a little less handy for a long rip cut along the edge of a solid wood board, as we are discussing. The table saw with fence seems like an easier set up in this case. Of course, my thinking on this might just be a case of this old dog not seeing the point of the new trick.

In any event, whether you do the job with the tablesaw or the guided circular saw, I don't see a whole lot of difference with regard to safety. In one case the workpiece can kick back and in the other the saw itself can kick back. Either is likely if the fence in one case or the guide in the other is misaligned. Can't say that I see what is inherently safer about the guided saw set up.

Thanks for giving me something interesting to think about!

Ed
Idaho Panhandle
MkV born as a 500 in '54, reborn as a 505 in 2004
DC 3300, bs, jointer

Hi Ed
Boy now we have about 5 Ed's wow!

I don't know if you guys ever have seen this site but it is filled with great teaching, product reviews, and how to's. http://www.woodshopdemos.com

If you go to http://www.woodshopdemos.com/fes-53.htm you will see Bob Marino (great guy) a Festool dealer demo'ing a method to joint two boards and how to cut a crown or bad edge off a board.

As for safety there are a few things to consider, with the guided tool systems your hand is never moving toward the cutting edge. With the guards in place on a regular circular saw, should kick back happen, the guard will snap shut guarding the blade and on a Festool saw the blade will retract back into the body of the saw. Also since the guided saw systems are designed for dust collection 90%+ of the dust generated by cutting is collected, this number goes much higher when using sanding and or routing tools. Lastly since your not struggling to throw around heavy boards or sheet goods there is less chance of muscle or back injury. Most cuts are made either on tables with sacrifical strips of wood or laid upon foam insulation which will stand up to thousands of cuts.

Four big pluses!!

Dusty your right except for two things with the home made guide you must insure your saw stays tight against the guide rail. With a guided tool system the tool is straddles the rail, therefore it can't move off the rail. With the Festool system due to saw design the saw blade is spring loaded to retract the blade into the saw body making it virtually impossible to come into contact with the blade. Lastly with a guided saw system they incorporate a zero clearance insert that insures there is no tear out on the cut. Both the keeper piece and the waste show a perfect edge and I have seen comparisons that show the cut quality is equal to or surpasses a cut made using a Woodworker II blade by Forestter on a high dollar table saw. Lastly because of the zero clearance and design of the guide rail dust collection is improved over using the saw with a home made rail, on the Festool dust collection was built into the design so it far exceeds common dust collection on even table saws.

Personally I believe technology like guided tools systems and things like the SawStop concept is going to set the industry on it's ear. I think the sooner the major manufactures imbrace both concepts the sooner they will be on the road to a sound economic future. If nothing else they reopen European market. My understanding is presently no saw commonly sold in the US by US based manufactures can be sold in Europe. I think all allow the mounting of dado blades which is illegal in Europe.
Ed

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