Newb with SS questions - part 2 - SS as Table Saw

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BigChip
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Newb with SS questions - part 2 - SS as Table Saw

Post by BigChip »

I got some great answers to my original post about considering a ShopSmith and my need for a new table saw. I am still interested in exploring the idea of buying a ShopSmith and learning how to use it for my needs.

As Mentioned, I do already have a (cheap) portable table saw, so if I keep it, technically I can use it for beveled rip cuts and similar operations, until I learn how to make the SS do the same jobs.

My new questions are - When using the SS for a table saw:

1) What model do you need to have to be able to set up adequate sized tables/outfeed/etc. I am assuming the 510 has a good sized table? And the 520 is better?

2) What about using a cross-cut sled. Is it similar to a regular table saw?

3) What tricks do you use to make the SS work for you as a table saw?

4) Tips for ripping sheets of plywood or other 4x8 material?

5) Any other general tips?

THANK YOU!
edma194
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Re: Newb with SS questions - part 2 - SS as Table Saw

Post by edma194 »

1. Model 510 and up have larger tables and a very flexible floating table system. You can get a fixed extension table and additional floating tables to extend the table on either side. Tables can also be connected to the front and/or back of the main table for more infeed and outfeed depth. 520s and the Mark 7 have an improved fence and rail system. I have a 510 and now 4 extra floating tables, one of which is also an extra extension table, so I can extend the tables out further than 8 ft. side to side.

2. Cross-cut sleds work just like for other table saws.

3. Once I got a 510 and it's larger tables I didn't really need any tricks except avoiding bevel cuts. I do have roller stands for infeed and outfeed on larger pieces.

4. I find two people with some roller stands can manage 4x8 sheets of plywood quite well. That's not any different from most table saws. But in most cases I set up saw horses and some planks and rip up a sheet of plywood with a circular saw first. A panel saw or tracksaw is a great alternative but I haven't found that great a need for one.

Notes:
I now have a Sawsmith 2000 table saw that was produced by Shopsmith for a while. It has larger tables, a high end Excalibur fence, and a special feature where the blade can be pulled through the wood for crosscuts. It does tilt the blade for bevel cuts also. This lessens my need to use the 510 as a table saw or to upgrade its fence and rail system.

I don't know how to emphasize enough what has been mentioned in other threads, the Shopsmith is a combination machine. It's not just a table saw, it's a table saw that also does your sanding, sharpens your tools, drills your holes in vertical or horizontal mode, and is even a lathe if you need it to be one. You can mount just about any kind of rotating tool, sanding disks and wheels, grinding wheels, abrasive cut-off wheels, flap sanders, router and shaper bits, if it spins you can use it, and you get variable speed control with everyone of them, they're all mounted on a quill, and you can use the flexible tilting table system with all of them. That's the real tip and trick, you get to do all of that other stuff with your table saw.
Ed from Rhode Island

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thunderbirdbat
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Re: Newb with SS questions - part 2 - SS as Table Saw

Post by thunderbirdbat »

1. The 510 and 520 use the same tables and allow the same amount of flexibility. The difference is in the fence and rail system. Personal opinion determines which is preferred. Many people are happy with the 510 fence but others have had problems with it and prefer the 520 with it's beefier fence. Personally, I like the 520 fence.

2. The only difference in cross cut sleds is the runner size to fit the SS miter slot.

3. Make sure all locks are tight and preferably connect the tables together. Use in-feed, out-feed and side tables to help support the work piece. Use a sled for cross cuts. Use a protractor, square, sliding T-bevel or angle gauge when setting up for a cut. When tilting the table, use caution and practice the way you are going to do the cut before turning the saw on. This allows you to verify that your hands and accessories do not get into the blade and you know how the work piece will behave. Use a fence or a board clamped to the work piece to run along the edge of the table help control it.

4. Rough cut to smaller size whenever possible. You can use a circular saw/track saw or have big box store cut it when purchasing to rough size. In-feed and out-feed support and a second person to help support work if you need to cut a full sheet. When tilting the table you may have to extend the quill to keep the blade in the insert slot.

5. Walk through each operation before actually doing it, especially when you are not familiar with the SS or that function. This will give you an idea on what is going to happen and how the SS differs from other equipment. The tilting table makes a big difference in how a work piece behaves. It wants to fall, if controlled from the high side, the cut off will fall to the floor, if controlled from the low side the cut off wants to fall into the blade causing it to kick back. Different inserts can be made using 1/4" stock.
Brenda

1998 510 upgraded to a 520, upgraded to power pro with double tilt and lift assist.
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RFGuy
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Re: Newb with SS questions - part 2 - SS as Table Saw

Post by RFGuy »

For the extension tables for infeed/outfeed support, etc. below is a good picture to show what is possible (jsburger's pic from thread linked below). This gives you a good idea of how you can support sheets of plywood, slabs of lumber, etc. An alternative way of connecting these extension tables is the Extension Table Brackets (https://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/cat ... racket.htm and pics 4 & 5 below) from Shopsmith which I like. You can buy as many extension tables as you want, but realize all of these need leg supports and connecting rods, etc. Second picture (post from larryhrockisland) below gives you a better idea of what bevel cuts are like on a long board. This 2nd picture is a Mark V (model 500). Only Mark V (model 510 and 520) and the newer Mark 7 have tables with rails that can be linked to extension tables. Both the 510 and 520 have the same size table which is larger than the 500 table. The difference between the 520 and the 510 is that the 520 uses beefier aluminum extrusions versus round rails (see 3rd pic below for 520 fence). With these new 520 rails, there is a big fence that works better than the 510 fence for many of us, though some still prefer the 510 fence. Unfortunately, the 510 and 520 table systems are not compatible, i.e. you can't easily mix & match extension tables with each. Crosscuts sleds work fine on the Shopsmith as long as they are custom built or offered by Shopsmith. If you are bringing a crosscut sled from a regular tablesaw to the Shopsmith, it may be too deep of a crosscut sled. It is not that you can't use it, but that if too deep it may be more awkward to start the sled on the smaller Shopsmith table for the cut. Also, realize that the Shopsmith miter slots are slightly undersized. Most tablesaws are 3/4" x 3/8" miter slots, but Shopsmith slots are 23/32" x 5/16" so if you are bringing crosscut sleds from another tablesaw you will likely need to replace the miter bars on them to fit a Shopsmith. When it comes to plywood I still recommend a tracksaw for the initial breaking it down. After this you can use your Shopsmith for cutting smaller pieces. I think I have seen tracksaws as cheap as like $250, but to get one from the top 3-4 brands is like $400-500. Note on tracksaws that if you want any aftermarket alignment guides that they only fit on the top brands which are somewhat interchangeable.
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Last edited by RFGuy on Sat Feb 06, 2021 12:16 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Ed in Tampa
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Re: Newb with SS questions - part 2 - SS as Table Saw

Post by Ed in Tampa »

Frankly if you believe a table saw is the main tool in a work shop , and I am not saying you do, buy a table saw! At best the SS is a compromise. You will find trying to use the jigs and fixtures you often see on TV, YouTube or in magazines probably will not work as shown. If you are trying to copy techniques or use add on accessories they probably will not fit or work.

However if you have limited space and just plan to use the SS to cut to size then yes the SS will work.

My opinion do not consider the 510, either get an old 500 or wait to you find a 520. I have owned all three and I believe the 510 was a disaster and should have never went to market. Frankly the 500 was very efficient, excellently designed and did almost everything I wanted. I think ad hype convinced me to move up to the 510 and 520 but the fact is the 500 in my opinion is superior.

Looking back at my expenditures I would have been MOST happy and better served had I kept my 500 as it was an excellent machine and also bought a standalone table saw using the money I spent upgrading to the near useless 510 and the later a much improved 520.

If you can't tell I hated the 510 and would have never bought had I known how poorly it performed.
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chapmanruss
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Re: Newb with SS questions - part 2 - SS as Table Saw

Post by chapmanruss »

One thing that has not been mentioned here or on your other post is the width of cut capacity. I'm sure your bench table saw has a very limited width of cut. I have a Craftsman 10" Table Saw (not a bench top) with their top of the line fence I bought around thirty years ago. It's width of cut is about 32" compared to even the Mark V 500 being at 48". The Mark V 510, 520 and Mark 7 have even wider cut capacities depending on the connector tubes you have. Shopsmith sells a 5' connector tube set besides the standard 27" tubes. If you needed to split a 4' x 8' panel in half to 4' x 4' you would need a cabinet saw as most Table Saws do not have that capacity. I certainly cannot do it on my Craftsman Table Saw. About handling larger materials. My Craftsman 10" Table Saw has a 27" deep table surface compared to my Mark V 520 or Mark 7 at 22". Either way I would need help cutting a 4' x 8' sheet of plywood. But even with it's shorter table depth, my Shopsmith has an advantage over my table saw. I can add infeed and/or outfeed tables directly connected to my main table as shown in the picture RFGuy posted above. For my table saw I have to use separate stands which can sometimes get pushed over as the material comes off the saw. Actually the only reason I have kept the Craftsman Table Saw is #1 I already own it, #2 I still have room for it and #3 I may want to use it for bevel cuts one day. Honestly, I haven't used it in years.

You may find this helpful. At the link below is a Summary Manual for the Mark V 520 from here on the Shopsmith website. It is not the complete Manual but can give you some ideas on setup, alignment and use.

https://www.shopsmith.com/getting_start ... Manual.pdf
_
Once you have a Shopsmith and understand using it for it's different functions you may find you bench table saw is sitting in the corner somewhere collecting dust. That is unless you use it elsewhere since it may be easier to transport to job sites.
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DLB
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Re: Newb with SS questions - part 2 - SS as Table Saw

Post by DLB »

510 Vs. 520 - Opinion here - There is an amazing aftermarket add-on made by JessEm called Clear Cut Stock Guides. I've never heard a negative comment about these, there are good reviews of these here on the forum. Several of us have adapted the table saw version to the 520 fence. Due to the minimum fence width (2" IIRC) they are not compatible with the 510 nor with most portable table saws, they are intended for the cabinet saw market. On the 520 or Mark 7, the guides are not limited to the table saw function.

While I've only used a 510 sparingly, I feel that the connector tubes are a better fit in the 520 rails, both before they are locked and after. Even if you are not using floating tables, it is useful to tie the main table to the extension table when possible using these tubes because it stabilizes the main table.

The variable speed feature of all Shopsmith Marks is an advantage not widely share in the table saw market. The ability to run the Jointer off an auxiliary power shaft at the same time as the saw is also common to all Marks and can be a convenient time saver. While other Marks have slightly less power than many portable table saws, the PowerPro has more power and is dual-voltage to balance power with portability. (Also heavy and expensive.)

- David
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dusty
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Re: Newb with SS questions - part 2 - SS as Table Saw

Post by dusty »

Ed in Tampa wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 12:02 pm Frankly if you believe a table saw is the main tool in a work shop , and I am not saying you do, buy a table saw! At best the SS is a compromise. You will find trying to use the jigs and fixtures you often see on TV, YouTube or in magazines probably will not work as shown. If you are trying to copy techniques or use add on accessories they probably will not fit or work.

However if you have limited space and just plan to use the SS to cut to size then yes the SS will work.

My opinion do not consider the 510, either get an old 500 or wait to you find a 520. I have owned all three and I believe the 510 was a disaster and should have never went to market. Frankly the 500 was very efficient, excellently designed and did almost everything I wanted. I think ad hype convinced me to move up to the 510 and 520 but the fact is the 500 in my opinion is superior.

Looking back at my expenditures I would have been MOST happy and better served had I kept my 500 as it was an excellent machine and also bought a standalone table saw using the money I spent upgrading to the near useless 510 and the later a much improved 520.

If you can't tell I hated the 510 and would have never bought had I known how poorly it performed.
You continue to make these statements so I shall continue to counter. There was nothing wrong with your 510 that could not have been corrected if you had been willing to do whatever was needed to set it up correctly and use it properly. You'll never convince me that you did not have a user error issue. You complain about the excessive table movement that was present. If that really existed, something wasn't tight or was broken. The carriage lock and tilt lock are key suspects. Design is not problem. If it was, mine would not be stable and it is.
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Dusty
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sehast
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Re: Newb with SS questions - part 2 - SS as Table Saw

Post by sehast »

I guess I tend to agree with Ed in that the economical way to go if you have the shop space is to get a MK 500 to use for everything except for a table saw. Buy a standalone table saw or now days see if a premium track saw system (Makita or Festool plus the necessary accessories) will do what you need instead of a table saw. In my view it is a trade for what you need most for sawing. Horsing around full sheets of plywood on any table saw is no fun. I have found that about the only thing a good track saw system is deficient in is narrow rip cuts (even they can be achieved but not easily). The necessary accessories can be costly but some can be shop made and even the ones that can't be, can be purchased over time as you need them.
BigChip
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Re: Newb with SS questions - part 2 - SS as Table Saw

Post by BigChip »

I appreciate all the help! The pictures were very helpful.
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