520 upgrade or?

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lew
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Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:45 am

520 upgrade or?

Post by lew »

Hello,
Been browsing the forum for some time but this is my first post, thanks in advance for any advice. I'm very much a beginner, have built a couple of tables, a desk and the mandatory cutting boards and birdhouses. My interests are mostly furniture, but that could change.

I purchased a circa 1980 MarkV a couple of years ago, along with the bandsaw and belt sander.
In general, I've enjoyed using it but find the table saw a bit intimidating. I have a track guided circular saw which I use for most cuts but have difficulty achieving consistent results. A router is used for most joinery.

Looking for opinions on some options:

Upgrade to a 520, Lowe's lists it at ~$1500, there is a complete one on Craigslist not too far from me for $1300, but room for two is limited. Aside from the improved table saw, does it provide much in the way of additional capability?

Upgrade to a 510, there are a couple on craigslist in the $500 range but space is still limited and I don't know if I want to go through the effort of selling the one I have.

MFT style top (parf system) for the track saw, hoping it will assist with square and consistent results as well as work holding. ~$220 for the parf jig.

jobsite table saw, I don't have the room or power for a cabinet saw. The sawstop is even more expensive than the 520 upgrade, but the peace of mind might be worth it.

Other options that I haven't considered?

Thank you.
DLB
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Location: Joshua Texas

Re: 520 upgrade or?

Post by DLB »

I don't have much experience with most of your options, but I endorse the 520 without hesitation. When my shop stationary tool collection was a 50's Mark 5 and a couple of SPTs I was 100% sure I wanted some form of portable table saw. I felt the M5 just wasn't adequate. But years later when I was upgrading my shop for retirement I picked up a used 520, still intending to buy the table saw. But for me the 520 was a night and day improvement over the old Greenie as a TS and I am happy with it. There are always going to be pros and cons to the SS Vs. TS because they are vastly different, but on balance I prefer the 520 over other portables I have looked at.

Given your other tools IIWM I'd be looking for a 520 that included a Jointer or was a bargain for other reasons. I got by without a planer for a long time, but to me a Jointer is indispensable. Whether the one you are looking at on CL is a deal or not would depend, for me, on condition and what it came with.

And I wouldn't get rid of the old Mark V unless space just demands it. I would probably repurpose it. There are many great ideas out there for a shorty, mini, dedicated drill press, sanding station, Mark-based Power Station, etc., depending on how much room you have and the nature of your woodworking.

- David
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chapmanruss
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Re: 520 upgrade or?

Post by chapmanruss »

Hi lew and welcome to the Shopsmith Forum.

I understand your desire to have only one Shopsmith. It was designed to take up little space in your garage or shop. That is one of its big pluses having multiple functions in a small space. It seems the table saw function is what you are most questioning. With that in mind let me make some suggestions. First off I see nothing gained by getting a job site table saw. It would have less capacity than your Mark V. The Mark V with the original table system has greater cutting capacity than my 10" Craftsman Table Saw which has up to 32". A Mark V with the original table system can cut up to 48" wide and even wider with the 510 or 520 Table System you are asking about. As with any table saw material support is key. Helpers is one option and infeed and/or outfeed supports are another. My Craftsman Table Saw has a 27" front to back size table. The Mark V original table (aka 500) has 18" front to back and the 510 and 520 are 22" front to back. The Craftsman table saw having 27" front to back provides more support than the Mark V tables but still not enough support without additional infeed/outfeed supports for larger materials so even with the extra 9" over the Mark V 500 still not a big enough difference to really help on those larger cuts. So why do I have a 10" Craftsman Table Saw besides having Shopsmiths you may be asking yourself. The answer is I had it before getting a Mark V and I have enough room to store it. Notice I said store it. I haven't actually used it in many years.

As for upgrading to a 510 or 520 know that the table sizes are the same and the difference is the fence system. There is a lot that has been written about the preferences of different users of the two fence types here on the forum. I have never used the 510 fence so I will not try to compare them for you. Many are happy with the 510 while other seem to prefer the 520. Some users have upgraded while others have not and still there have been users that liked their 510 over their 520. One thing I would say about the choice to consider is Shopsmith has stopped selling the Mark V model 510 and at some point they will likely discontinue selling the 510 specific parts like they have done with the original 500 table system parts.
Russ

Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
Mark V 520
All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.
Has Speed Changer, 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E's S/N's 1076 & 1077 oldest ones I have restored. Mark 2 S/N 85959 restored. Others to be restored.
lew
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Re: 520 upgrade or?

Post by lew »

Thank you chapmanruss and DLB.

It's good to hear the positive reviews of the 520 and that's a good point about the 510 specific parts.
Guess I didn't realize the table size on the 500 was comparable to the portables, it just seems small. Think I'll give the infeed/outfeed support some thought while deciding which way to go. I saw a posting where the Husky adjustable table makes a good support solution. Any other thoughts?

I have a standalone shopsmith planer that works great and an old 1950's Delta Jointer that needs some attention and I've yet to use it, but I think it will be ok once I replace the knives.

Thanks again for taking the time to write up such a thoughtful and thorough reply.
RFGuy
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Re: 520 upgrade or?

Post by RFGuy »

Lew,

Welcome to the forum! I never had a 500 table so I can't really comment on it, but I prefer the 520 table system myself. If you are interested there is a good thread below discussing the pros and cons of the 520 fence system versus the 510 or 500 ones. Good opinions on both side of the fence (pun) with regard to whether to upgrade or not upgrade. I think for some of us, our 510 fences were persnickety straight from the factory, but others have had little or no problems with their 510 fence. For me, the 520 fence upgrade greatly enhanced my Mark V and was worth every penny. My Dad still has the 510 fence system on his Mark V and couldn't be happier with it. Just my opinion, but the Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides have made my Shopsmith more enjoyable to use for tablesaw operations. In my opinion, unless you are making a lot of smaller projects I would steer clear of the Shopsmith jointer. It is only 4" wide so I would question how useful it would be for the kind of furniture projects you mentioned already having completed. If you are building furniture you will be much happier with a wider format jointer and/or using a planer sled to face joint in your planer. Of course, it works reasonably well for edge jointing but only if the board isn't very long or cupped to begin with. If I could ask, what issues are you having with your tracksaw? I believe you mentioned having some issues with consistency with it. You can do a lot with a Mark V (500, 510 or 520) or Mark 7 for tablesaw operation, particularly if you buy many additional floating tables, but for sheet goods (plywood, MDF, etc.) I strongly prefer to use my tracksaw for those cuts over my 520. Just far easier to take the saw to the plywood than to bring a bulky sheet to the tablesaw.

https://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/main ... 22342.html

https://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/wood ... 22171.html
Last edited by RFGuy on Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
lew
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Re: 520 upgrade or?

Post by lew »

Hi RFGuy,

Thank you for the links, there is some good information there.
Regarding the tracksaw, it's probably more of an operator issue than a saw issue. Even after triple checking it for square and setting stops, I can cut three identical pieces and then the fourth one is off. I think part of it is ensuring it's square, but also the work shifting, which is why I'm considering a MFT style top. I do have better luck cutting sheet goods with it than I do non-sheet goods, but it's still a little hit or miss.
RFGuy
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Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:05 am
Location: a suburb of PHX, AZ

Re: 520 upgrade or?

Post by RFGuy »

lew wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:36 pm Hi RFGuy,

Thank you for the links, there is some good information there.
Regarding the tracksaw, it's probably more of an operator issue than a saw issue. Even after triple checking it for square and setting stops, I can cut three identical pieces and then the fourth one is off. I think part of it is ensuring it's square, but also the work shifting, which is why I'm considering a MFT style top. I do have better luck cutting sheet goods with it than I do non-sheet goods, but it's still a little hit or miss.
Lew,

For identical pieces on the tracksaw you will likely need to go with aftermarket parallel guides (link below) to attach to the track to truly get identical ripped pieces. Are you clamping the track to the workpiece or table? I use Bessey clamps (link below), but there are many alternatives as well. Tracks can move on you, particularly when the neoprene runners underneath get coated with sawdust, but clamping should improve this. Hope this helps.

https://tsoproducts.com/tso-parallel-gu ... de-system/

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B013U ... UTF8&psc=1
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
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Ed in Tampa
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Re: 520 upgrade or?

Post by Ed in Tampa »

lew wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:17 am Hello,
Been browsing the forum for some time but this is my first post, thanks in advance for any advice. I'm very much a beginner, have built a couple of tables, a desk and the mandatory cutting boards and birdhouses. My interests are mostly furniture, but that could change.

I purchased a circa 1980 MarkV a couple of years ago, along with the bandsaw and belt sander.
In general, I've enjoyed using it but find the table saw a bit intimidating. I have a track guided circular saw which I use for most cuts but have difficulty achieving consistent results. A router is used for most joinery.

Looking for opinions on some options:

Upgrade to a 520, Lowe's lists it at ~$1500, there is a complete one on Craigslist not too far from me for $1300, but room for two is limited. Aside from the improved table saw, does it provide much in the way of additional capability?

Upgrade to a 510, there are a couple on craigslist in the $500 range but space is still limited and I don't know if I want to go through the effort of selling the one I have.

MFT style top (parf system) for the track saw, hoping it will assist with square and consistent results as well as work holding. ~$220 for the parf jig.

jobsite table saw, I don't have the room or power for a cabinet saw. The sawstop is even more expensive than the 520 upgrade, but the peace of mind might be worth it.

Other options that I haven't considered?

Thank you.
First why do you find the model 500 intimidating when using it as a tablesaws? Going to a 510 or 520 can be no less intimidating both just supply a larger table. First if you are going to upgrade, go to 520, my opinion of the 510 is very low and caused me to stop using my SS until I upgraded to a 520. I liked my 500 and knowing what I know now I would have never upgraded it.
Breaking down sheet stock on a table saw while it can be done is not a good idea, there are better ways such as panel saws, track saws and etc.
Again I would like to understand your problem using the model 500 to cut non sheet stock. Like I said the 520 may not solve your problem depending on what the problem is.
Another choice you have but did not mention is to buy a cast iron saw such as the Ridgid 4512 or the Delta 36-725 t2 tablesaw both are priced around $700 and have excellent reviews and should provide you excellent results. They are sold at Home Depot and Lowe’s respectively. Both show up on Craigslist so you might find them at a lower price.
But before any of us can really help we need to understand what your problem with the model 500 is.
lew
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Re: 520 upgrade or?

Post by lew »

I'm sure it's largely lack of experience, but the 500 table feels cramped. I do seem to have some trouble with aligning the fence, but haven't really investigated and am chalking it up to a "me" problem. I do rely on the tracksaw for sheet goods so that's not too much of a concern.

When you say you wish you never upgraded your 500, is that just to the 510 or would you have kept the 500 over the 520?

Thanks for the info on the Ridgid and Delta, I'll check them out.
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dusty
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Re: 520 upgrade or?

Post by dusty »

lew wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:55 am I'm sure it's largely lack of experience, but the 500 table feels cramped. I do seem to have some trouble with aligning the fence, but haven't really investigated and am chalking it up to a "me" problem. I do rely on the tracksaw for sheet goods so that's not too much of a concern.

When you say you wish you never upgraded your 500, is that just to the 510 or would you have kept the 500 over the 520?

Thanks for the info on the Ridgid and Delta, I'll check them out.
Do your research here because for every reason that Ed dislikes the 500 to 510 upgrade I have a diametrically opposed opinion. I have both the 510 and an upgraded 510 (520) in my shop and I have no problems with either. In fact, I have a hard time justifying to myself why I upgraded to the 520. The differences between the rail mechanisms does little for me.

Be aware. however, Ed upgraded to a 510 and was not pleased with the results. My 510 was a 510 at creation as was my 520. This is not a one for one comparison.
"Making Sawdust Safely"
Dusty
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