Making a flute?

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RFGuy
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Re: Making a flute?

Post by RFGuy »

HopefulSSer wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:59 am I'm thinking to ensure concentricity to bore it out first, (maybe after first roughing it round or maybe easier to hold it for this while it's still square), then using conical centers to hold it by the bore while turning the outer profile? Or would the tailstock be too flexy to get a good grip?
Below is the salt & pepper mill that gave me my start on making them. The construction is a bit different between a salt/pepper mill and a flute, but the core concept of rounding the blank and drilling out the interior could be the same. For a larger (wider) turning like a salt/pepper mill you want to round the blank and drill out the interior before shaping it the rest of the way. Since your blank is smaller in diameter you would probably want to use the lathe chuck to hold onto the flute with the longer reach chuck jaws. I would round the blank first before drilling it if you do it all on the lathe. If you drill it in drill press or horizontal boring mode then I would keep the blank square first. Once it is bored out, you should be able to use a live center in the tailstock, but you'll need one with a big enough conical end to fit inside the flute hole on the end. As an alternative you can use dowels or even turn a small end piece to go inside of the flute to be gripped by the tailstock live center. Same comments here as to using the dowel...just be careful with it and don't be surprised if the hole bored is of a different origin center compared to the outside turning due to lathe chuck & Shopsmith arbor runout causes concentric errors. It may be small and imperceptible, but it can also be large as I found out with turning salt/pepper mills. Hope this helps. There are always different ways to accomplish the same task and maybe a more experienced turner than myself can comment of a different/better way to accomplish this for a flute.

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edma194
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Re: Making a flute?

Post by edma194 »

RFGuy wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:00 am Only if the lathe chuck jaws are perfectly concentric. Keep in mind only the face of the turning is the reference and the flute will be parted off, so the dowel trick you mentioned may work fine, but then again it could be off a bit if you have a poorly machined lathe chuck.

Keep in mind, just removing the turning and re-chucking can cause concentric errors because the chuck jaws aren't perfect resulting in one side being high and the other low on a rounded turning. I learned this one the hard way on a salt & pepper mill in the past. This is why I expressed caution with doing it that way.
Wow! I am expecting a lot of 'learning experiences' ahead of me as I learn to turn. I am recalling now some mention of needing extra chucks if you want to work on multiple pieces so you can keep each one mounted in it's original chuck until it's done.
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RFGuy
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Re: Making a flute?

Post by RFGuy »

edma194 wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:46 pm Wow! I am expecting a lot of 'learning experiences' ahead of me as I learn to turn. I am recalling now some mention of needing extra chucks if you want to work on multiple pieces so you can keep each one mounted in it's original chuck until it's done.
Ed,

Thanks. Yeah, I wasn't trying to over-complicate it, but I was slightly burned by this issue myself in the past. You can certainly go too far in chasing runout errors and trying to get everything perfectly concentric. Ed's (reible) advice on the thread linked below really helped me to understand it better. Bottomline is that it is best to keep the turning chucked up as long as possible, so if you need to remove it to work on another project you should keep it in the same chuck when removed from the machine. Chucking and re-chucking a piece can cause concentric errors because arbor, chuck runout and tailstock center runout isn't zero. Keeping it chucked up allows you to come back to the project later and not have as much of an issue with this. As a woodturner if you switch between projects it is ideal to have a few chucks available to swap between projects until they are finished so you can keep them gripped in the chucks in between time.

viewtopic.php?p=278962#p278962

P.S. Forgot to mention the advice from Dennis was very helpful as well and was higher up on that thread. Here it is:

viewtopic.php?p=278938#p278938
Last edited by RFGuy on Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
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HopefulSSer
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Re: Making a flute?

Post by HopefulSSer »

There's a ton of great info here!
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RFGuy
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Re: Making a flute?

Post by RFGuy »

HopefulSSer wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:05 pm There's a ton of great info here!
I am still a newbie at woodturning and have only been at it 1-2 years now, but there are some very experienced woodturners on the forum so feel free to ask questions as you progress. It can be a lot of fun, but also has some danger like everything else in woodworking. I highly recommend you get some kind of face shield to wear while turning. It is not uncommon for a turning to sometimes come apart on you, either from operator error or just a weakness in the wood sometimes. I have been fortunate so far to not be hit by any of them, but it can happen that you could be hit in the face by a piece of wood that breaks away and flies at you. Look for an impact resistant face shield, emphasis on it saying it is impact resistant. What kind of chisels are you using for woodturning? The standard are to use gouges which are traditional. They need to be sharp so you will be sharpening them constantly while turning, but they give the best (smoothest) finish typically because they are a shear cut. In recent years, replaceable carbide cutter tools have become more popular, especially with newbie woodturners. Easy Wood (https://www.easywoodtools.com/) is one of the best for these tools, but there are cheaper options out there. These tools are scraping the wood and produce a finish that needs more sanding at the end. Using carbide cutters they stay sharp much longer and the cutter can be rotated before eventually being replaced. It is up to you which tools you want to use, but know that the learning curve is shorter and easier with carbide cutter tools than with gouge chisels. Going with one direction here means you have to unlearn everything and learn a new method if you switch to the other chisels later.
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
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JPG
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Re: Making a flute?

Post by JPG »

Let us not start a(nother) discussion re flexxy tail stops. Cockpit problem usually.
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HopefulSSer
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Re: Making a flute?

Post by HopefulSSer »

JPG wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:14 pm Let us not start a(nother) discussion re flexxy tail stops. Cockpit problem usually.
Did I open a can of worms? Sorry! :)
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HopefulSSer
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Re: Making a flute?

Post by HopefulSSer »

RFGuy wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:40 pm
HopefulSSer wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:05 pm There's a ton of great info here!
I am still a newbie at woodturning and have only been at it 1-2 years now, but there are some very experienced woodturners on the forum so feel free to ask questions as you progress. It can be a lot of fun, but also has some danger like everything else in woodworking. I highly recommend you get some kind of face shield to wear while turning. It is not uncommon for a turning to sometimes come apart on you, either from operator error or just a weakness in the wood sometimes. I have been fortunate so far to not be hit by any of them, but it can happen that you could be hit in the face by a piece of wood that breaks away and flies at you. Look for an impact resistant face shield, emphasis on it saying it is impact resistant. What kind of chisels are you using for woodturning? The standard are to use gouges which are traditional. They need to be sharp so you will be sharpening them constantly while turning, but they give the best (smoothest) finish typically because they are a shear cut. In recent years, replaceable carbide cutter tools have become more popular, especially with newbie woodturners. Easy Wood (https://www.easywoodtools.com/) is one of the best for these tools, but there are cheaper options out there. These tools are scraping the wood and produce a finish that needs more sanding at the end. Using carbide cutters they stay sharp much longer and the cutter can be rotated before eventually being replaced. It is up to you which tools you want to use, but know that the learning curve is shorter and easier with carbide cutter tools than with gouge chisels. Going with one direction here means you have to unlearn everything and learn a new method if you switch to the other chisels later.
Cheers for the info! Ahead of you on the face shield! :) Right now I'm using the tools that came with the machine -- a set of old Craftsman turning tools (two sizes of spindle gouges, one or two skew chisels, and a parting tool) and a couple other random ones. They of course needed the rust cleaned off and sharpened but that's not an issue. I've used carbide cutters on metal lathes but not on a hand-held tool. (Though I've seen them used on PBS shows). Certainly something to consider. And I'm not against learning new skills so being able to use both wouldn't be the worst thing....

I'm waiting on some centers now (in addition to the replacement gilmer belt). With the machine I got a live tail center (frozen), a screw center (I used this for the peppermill knob), a Jacobs chuck (less key), and a router chuck. Not the most versatile kit. I have a feeling this machine might exacerbate my TAS (Tool Acquisition Syndrome) ;)
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Re: Making a flute?

Post by JPG »

HopefulSSer wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:37 pm
JPG wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:14 pm Let us not start a(nother) discussion re flexxy tail stops. Cockpit problem usually.
Did I open a can of worms? Sorry! :)
No can of worms. Just a bit weary of what can possibly be prevented. A key is the SPT clamp and stop collars.

Make sure you get the correct chuck key. Post a pix. Likely a jacobs mastercraft or 3326.
╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10
E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
RFGuy
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Re: Making a flute?

Post by RFGuy »

HopefulSSer wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:48 pm Cheers for the info! Ahead of you on the face shield! :) Right now I'm using the tools that came with the machine -- a set of old Craftsman turning tools (two sizes of spindle gouges, one or two skew chisels, and a parting tool) and a couple other random ones. They of course needed the rust cleaned off and sharpened but that's not an issue. I've used carbide cutters on metal lathes but not on a hand-held tool. (Though I've seen them used on PBS shows). Certainly something to consider. And I'm not against learning new skills so being able to use both wouldn't be the worst thing....

I'm waiting on some centers now (in addition to the replacement gilmer belt). With the machine I got a live tail center (frozen), a screw center (I used this for the peppermill knob), a Jacobs chuck (less key), and a router chuck. Not the most versatile kit. I have a feeling this machine might exacerbate my TAS (Tool Acquisition Syndrome) ;)
From your profile, I see that you live in NC. IF you want instruction on the lathe, there is a world famous woodturner that does classes at her studio in/around Charleston, SC if you are interested. Might be worth a drive. She also sells some very high quality gouges in case you ever want to upgrade your chisels. Her website is below but you can also find her YouTube channel by searching for Ashley Harwood. I'd love to take a class with her sometime, but it is a lot to pay for the class and airfare out there. There are also a couple of video classes from her on the Woodwhisperer Guild. I learned a lot from her video classes. Lastly, there is the American Association of Woodturners that has a lot of resources as well. Yeah, woodworking tools are expensive and can propagate. It isn't that expensive to get into woodturning, but the more you progress in it, the tools get more and more and more expensive to obtain quality.

https://www.ashleyharwood.com/

https://thewoodwhispererguild.com/

https://www.aawforum.org/community/
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
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