Flag Display Case, My First

Forum for people who are new to woodworking. Feel free to ask questions or contribute.

Moderators: HopefulSSer, admin

User avatar
algale
Platinum Member
Posts: 4793
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:13 am

Re: Flag Display Case, My First

Post by algale »

Hobbyman2 wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:34 am
algale wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:18 pm
Hobbyman2 wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:25 pm a 22.5 degree angle or any angle for that mater should be rather elementary for any one in a wood shop ???? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubHqcpfOSK0
Drawing an angle is one thing. Cutting an angle with precision and repeatability is another.
----------------

Very true , I am thinking if you can draw or transfer the markings on paper drawing or transferring it on to a piece of wood should be second nature , once the angle is defined set up should be fairly easy . I like where this is going and the table tilt looks like a great move .
I actually think drawing the angle on a big piece of paper would be much easier than drawing it on the edge of a 3/4 inch wide piece of stock or trying to transfer the angle from paper to wood.

Even if you could get a pencil line drawn perfectly on the wood, cutting to the lines on a project like this isn't going to get the job done unless you are very lucky! Think about the fact that a 0.5mm mechanical pencil is going to leave a line almost 20 thousandths of an inch thick. On a project like this, even three thousandths of an inch variance from the ideal line is going to open up those joints.

I like what the OP is doing. Dialing in the angle by making test cuts in scrap is step one. Putting positive, mechanical stops to ensure repeatability as to the angle and the length is also required.
Gale's Law: The bigger the woodworking project, the less the mistakes show in any photo taken far enough away to show the entire project!

Hobbyman2
Platinum Member
Posts: 2660
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:52 am
Location: Ohio

Re: Flag Display Case, My First

Post by Hobbyman2 »

Agree I'm not so fond of drawing it on the edge of a 3/4 board either , transferring the angle from a piece of paper or making the angle into a paper template or even blue painters tape would be worth trying . was never fond of using pencils , I think the pencil lead thickness would effect the length of the cut stock more so than the angle . I normally use a marking knife , it leaves a sharp crisp well defined edge . JMO
Hobbyman2 Favorite Quote: "If a man does his best, what else is there?"
- General George S. Patton (1885-1945)
garys
Platinum Member
Posts: 2075
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:16 am
Location: Bismarck, ND

Re: Flag Display Case, My First

Post by garys »

I didn't find it particularly challenging to cut those 22.5 degree angles when I made up a few display cases. I simply set my miter gauge and ran scrap wood through. I cut 4 of them and laid them together in my metal square. Once I found the right angle for the miter gauge that gave me 4 peices that made exactly 90 degrees, I cut the good wood at that angle.
They fit like this when done. No special equipment or setup is needed if you have a table saw and miter gauge.
miter.jpg
miter.jpg (183.3 KiB) Viewed 16395 times
User avatar
BuckeyeDennis
Platinum Member
Posts: 3683
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:03 pm
Location: Central Ohio

Re: Flag Display Case, My First

Post by BuckeyeDennis »

What kind of miter gauge did you use? My standard Shopsmith miter gauges only go down to about +/- 27 degrees before they hit their ends of travel.
DLB
Platinum Member
Posts: 1985
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:24 am
Location: Joshua Texas

Re: Flag Display Case, My First

Post by DLB »

garys wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:45 am I didn't find it particularly challenging to cut those 22.5 degree angles when I made up a few display cases. I simply set my miter gauge and ran scrap wood through. I cut 4 of them and laid them together in my metal square. Once I found the right angle for the miter gauge that gave me 4 peices that made exactly 90 degrees, I cut the good wood at that angle.
They fit like this when done. No special equipment or setup is needed if you have a table saw and miter gauge.
The part of this I can't visualize is not the finished product, which looks fine. My SS miter gauge does not swing to read 22.5 degrees, the angle that I think is necessary to make this cut with a miter gauge. (It starts at 90 degrees for a crosscut, which I now understand is not standard as some start at 0 and some show both scales.) It swings a couple of degrees below 30, so the most acute cut angle is ~28 degrees. And I also can't visualize the cuts you made where four pieces were laid into a square to make exactly 90 degrees. When I read that in your earlier post I thought it was a different set of plans. I have done the same thing with three pieces when making some octagons, the 'other' 22.5 degree miter. (I don't think this is strictly necessary, I'm happy with measuring the result of two pieces with a combination square or protractor.)

The OP's plans adds a complicating factor, the finished width of the pieces appears to be 4". Which IIRC exceeds the depth of cut of my preferred brand of TS to cut this as a standard miter. I can't imagine that alone is why it is cut on end and as a bevel though.

- David
garys
Platinum Member
Posts: 2075
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:16 am
Location: Bismarck, ND

Re: Flag Display Case, My First

Post by garys »

I used the Shopsmith miter gauge. First I cut a 45 degree piece of scrap wood and attached it to the miter gauge. From there, it was simple to adjust the miter gauge to get the rest of the 67.5 degrees needed. A basic Shopsmith and some scrap wood can do just about anything you need to do.
Hobbyman2
Platinum Member
Posts: 2660
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:52 am
Location: Ohio

Re: Flag Display Case, My First

Post by Hobbyman2 »

I am not sure a miter gage is even necessary ? Using a sliding T-Bevel to transfer or duplicate the angle needed to the table , using as piece of masking tape on the table to carry the lines , at that point any straight piece of scrap could be clamped to the table at the angle for a stop or temporary fence ? JMO
Hobbyman2 Favorite Quote: "If a man does his best, what else is there?"
- General George S. Patton (1885-1945)
User avatar
BuckeyeDennis
Platinum Member
Posts: 3683
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:03 pm
Location: Central Ohio

Re: Flag Display Case, My First

Post by BuckeyeDennis »

garys wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 12:35 pm I used the Shopsmith miter gauge. First I cut a 45 degree piece of scrap wood and attached it to the miter gauge. From there, it was simple to adjust the miter gauge to get the rest of the 67.5 degrees needed. A basic Shopsmith and some scrap wood can do just about anything you need to do.
That’s a clever way to extend the angular range of a miter gauge! I don’t think I’ve ever heard of the technique before.

Granted that it’s just semantics, but I’d argue that the 45 degree piece of wood that you attached to the miter gauge is in fact a simple jig — whether or not it was made from scrap wood. Per Merriam-Webster, in the sense that woodworkers use the word, a jig is “a device used to maintain mechanically the correct positional relationship between a piece of work and the tool or between parts of work during assembly”.

But regardless, simple is good. And your simple jig has an advantage over a sled, in that it doesn’t reduce the available depth of cut.

However, I just looked at Marc’s plans again, and it appears that the parts that he needs to bevel to 22.5 degrees are 4” wide. Which is still beyond the Mark V’s 3.25” max depth of cut.
User avatar
BuckeyeDennis
Platinum Member
Posts: 3683
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:03 pm
Location: Central Ohio

Re: Flag Display Case, My First

Post by BuckeyeDennis »

DLB wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:53 am
garys wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:45 am I didn't find it particularly challenging to cut those 22.5 degree angles when I made up a few display cases. I simply set my miter gauge and ran scrap wood through. I cut 4 of them and laid them together in my metal square. Once I found the right angle for the miter gauge that gave me 4 peices that made exactly 90 degrees, I cut the good wood at that angle.
They fit like this when done. No special equipment or setup is needed if you have a table saw and miter gauge.
The part of this I can't visualize is not the finished product, which looks fine. My SS miter gauge does not swing to read 22.5 degrees, the angle that I think is necessary to make this cut with a miter gauge. (It starts at 90 degrees for a crosscut, which I now understand is not standard as some start at 0 and some show both scales.) It swings a couple of degrees below 30, so the most acute cut angle is ~28 degrees. And I also can't visualize the cuts you made where four pieces were laid into a square to make exactly 90 degrees. When I read that in your earlier post I thought it was a different set of plans. I have done the same thing with three pieces when making some octagons, the 'other' 22.5 degree miter. (I don't think this is strictly necessary, I'm happy with measuring the result of two pieces with a combination square or protractor.)

The OP's plans adds a complicating factor, the finished width of the pieces appears to be 4". Which IIRC exceeds the depth of cut of my preferred brand of TS to cut this as a standard miter. I can't imagine that alone is why it is cut on end and as a bevel though.

- David
I was puzzled at first by the part about four pieces making 90 degrees too, David. I was envisioning them being connected in a joint-to-joint serial chain, as in an actual frame. But it finally dawned on me that garys must have been assembling the test-cut pieces like segmented wedges. So a pair of them makes a 45 degree wedge, and four of them make a 90 degree wedge. That’s actually a great way to measure the angle, as any error in the angle of the individual wedges is multiplied four-fold before being checked against the square. It’s roughly analogous to William Ng’s 5-cut method for zeroing sled fences.
Hobbyman2
Platinum Member
Posts: 2660
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:52 am
Location: Ohio

Re: Flag Display Case, My First

Post by Hobbyman2 »

By using the SS tenon jig to cut the mortise and tenon it would be pretty easy to make those miter joints into ta tong and grove joint , would make for a pretty strong miter joint JMO
Hobbyman2 Favorite Quote: "If a man does his best, what else is there?"
- General George S. Patton (1885-1945)
Post Reply