Violence in CT

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:33 am

I have just been watching a TV news program where it was stated that TV and online video gaming violence is to be blamed for what happened in CT this week.

I understand what is being said but has it been shown that any of the recent shooters were addicted gamers or is this just media sensationalism.

tom_k/mo · Post by **tom_k/mo** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:24 am

No Dusty, the research has not supported that claim. Looking at the problem though, it does seem to make sense that there ARE real external aspects that are exasperating this. You just CAN'T blame the semi-automatic, and ban semi-automatics. Even the dreaded black "assault rifle"... It's just a .223 semi-auto with a plastic stock The M15-M16 platform has been around since the 70's. The AK47 went into service in '49 We've had semi-auto pistols since 1911. When you were young, did you ever think of picking up a gun and going to a school/theater/mall and causing damage like this? Neither did I... I grew up with shotguns and rifles in my room. It's not the "availability" of guns, they WERE available. In many cases, homes had guns loaded behind the door jam.

A number of these recent cases seem to have one, sometimes two common denominators though. First, many of these kids have psychological problems. Second, it seems as if a number have come from broken homes.

One thing IS for sure though, Bloomberg, Feinstein & Co. are wasting no time beating the drum for another AWB.

holsgo · Post by **holsgo** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:25 am

The most broken system we have is the mental health system. I have personally had to experience this twice for a relative. In both cases, I knew something was wrong, tried to facilitate help, watched as the very process almost turned them away because of laws, sat on the sidelines while the process happened and was NEVER once asked any further questions (because of privacy laws). It was so flawed to watch. Almost sad actually because the very patient wasn't in a normal state to be answering any questions, yet it was the patients decision as to whether they should stay in the program or not unless a judge orders it. A judge would only order it if there was an event. I didn't want to see an event, I was hoping for help earlier! So what do you think the patient would decide to do? Right, leave the program. Unreal.
These sprees are very sad. But it seems in most cases that the person doing the shooting has a mental health history. Now that I've seen the process firsthand, its my opinion that if we can really look at the mental health system, we stand a better chance of heading this off in the future.

kalynzoo · Post by **kalynzoo** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:55 pm

Holsgo has spotted the elephant in the room. Society will blame video games, guns (naturally), junk food, bad teachers, parenting, maybe even childhood vaccinations. This and other horrors will be used to justify all points of view.
Sadly, usually bypassed in the conversation in the condition and restrictions placed on our mental health system. Teachers must report, but are often chastised if they do. Programs are discussed but never funded. Special education teachers are given classes with a few students to help only to find that by the end of the semester their class size as swelled significantly. HIPA regulations, meant to protect patient rights, have made reporting a problem adult child extremely difficult, almost imposible without bringing criminal action against a family member.
Yes, a problem exists, if only society would look in the center of the room.
Just venting.
Merry Christmas to all, and thoughts and prayers to the many who are now suffering.

robinson46176 · Post by **robinson46176** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:17 pm

Below is the facebook post I made yesterday as family and friends discussed this...

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I read an editorial last night where the unthinking writer claimed "it is a lot harder to commit mass murder with a knife than a gun". What makes the fool think that a crazed mass murderer will drop back to a knife if he can't get a gun? He will go the other way and murder with a car (crashing into crowds) or explosives (I don't believe Timothy Mcveigh fired a single shot...) or other "very effective" devices, not a knife. Then again, a couple of sharp heavy swords can inflict a lot of damage in a few seconds...
If you want to scare yourself do a Google search on "homemade flamethrowers"...
Where there is a will there is a way... We need to work on the will. It is the distorted brain not the trigger finger that kills. The finger, the gun and the vehicle that gets them to their destination are all just tools. You "CANNOT" remove all of them. We need to work on the distorted brains, not the tools (which are everywhere). I would venture to say that every one of us has or do now know someone that "had worried or currently worries" us. We need a better system that does not always put early stage mental health help dead last...

.

holsgo · Post by **holsgo** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:28 pm

Mental Health is something I view like a broken arm...the difference is you can see the broken arm, xray it, categorically demonstrate it's broken. The brain breaks as well, just like the arm. But, and a big BUT, is that you can't do any of the above like with the arm, to the brain, not at least without consent, and proof and a ton of other things. The diagnosis is long, unlike the arm. It takes questioning (at least in the early stages) and denial is a big deterrent to getting it right. Usually, in the case of the brain and mental health, the "break" happens long before it's readily apparent that it's broken. And by this point simply asking the patient if something hurts and where is not enough. The system needs to be fixed to allow us, the family and those around them to be allowed to be part of the fix. We almost always see it first. Usually the diagnosis of a loved one is not just a diagnosis for the patient but for the family as well. It can change the course of things like jobs, habits...everything. And we shouldn't be sent away without being part of the fix for the sake of privacy.

fredsheldon · Post by **fredsheldon** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:41 pm

I have been playing World of Warcraft for 8 years now and I don't have the desire to go out and shoot up a school full of kids. Computer games and guns don't kill, people do. I have a friend that has a 50 cal. rifle. What the heck does he need that for

fjimp · Post by **fjimp** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:57 pm

Lack of understanding and treatment options for those suffering from mental health issues is in my mind one of the most dangerous and overlooked problems in our world today. My career involved selling and servicing health insurance clients. By far the most frustrating portions of my work were finding carriers offering real maternity and mental health care benefits. Some states require the maternity care option. From my limited experience most are way behind on the mental health part. However the worst part is creating a situation where those with mental related issues are willing or forced to follow thru with the treatments. Then of course there are a huge number of medical providers prescribing medications with virtually no clue of what the are doing or if it will work. Take the man accused of being the Aurora theater shooter. The University where he was enrolled had a mental health care provider who felt he should be forced to undergo an inpatient evaluation. He dis-enrolled and that provider dropped her suggestion. The rest is history. Bottom line our government, insurance carriers, medial and political leaders and even family members related to potentially dangerous individuals refuse to address the single most important cause of public violence.

I am writing this and remembering many years ago the political leaders in Colorado determined it was too costly to have "unbalanced people" incarcerated in institutions, they turned them all loose onto the city streets. From what little I have been able to discover most lived and died as street people. What kind of life "quality" could that possibly be? In fact could that alone contribute to violence? Wow more questions than answers. Jim

Note: These opinions are mine alone and worth almost as much as the time I used to jot them down.

skou · Post by **skou** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:34 pm

fredsheldon wrote: I have a friend that has a 50 cal. rifle. What the heck does he need that for

Fred, I've got about 400 pounds of cast iron, not counting my ERs. I've got about 150 pounds of LEGO bricks. What do I NEED that much cookware or toys for?

Does your friend with the .50 cal rifle do anything bad with it? Is he a law-abiding citizen? If you answered no and yes, don't worry about it!

As a youngster, a friend and I made a pen-gun, in metal shop. The teacher helped us. We didn't kill anything, but we did manage to hit a tree, from about 5 feet away. (That gun was VERY unpredictable.)

I've got customers that come in to the grocery store, carrying, all the time. We've never had any incedents. (About 1/3 of the employees are carrying, too.)

What I'm driving to (as other have said) it isn't the hardware you've got, it is the mental state you're in.

steve

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:01 pm

fredsheldon wrote:I have been playing World of Warcraft for 8 years now and I don't have the desire to go out and shoot up a school full of kids. Computer games and guns don't kill, people do. I have a friend that has a 50 cal. rifle. What the heck does he need that for

From my point of view, he doesn't need that 50cal any less than need your World of Warcraft.

FWIW, I have a license to carry. Does that make me bad. Does that make me a risk to society. I fired my first had gun (a military 38) about 45 years ago and I have never caused the first drop of blood to be shed.