Woodgears Doesn't Recommend Shopsmith

[algale]

In another thread about the Shopsmith belt sander it was pointed out that Mattias Wandel (woodgears.ca) uses a Shopsmith belt sander, so he must think it is pretty good. In fact I found he was kind of critical about the belt sander.

"In front of the lathe is my belt sander. It's a slightly odd shaped piece of equipment, and is actually a ShopSmith accessory on its own base. I find it's nearly impossible to set the tracking on it to keep the belt from wandering into one side or the other. But overall, it's a handy tool to have."

But that was just the beginning. I also found this on his website:

"Tools that I don't recommend buying
***
Do everything combination machines
Avoid machines that can be converted from one machine to another. The ShopSmith is a prime example of such a machine. Multi purpose machines are usually good at one or two functions, but other aspects are compromised. But the real problem is that every time you need to switch functions, you need to convert the machine. And the cost of these machines is usually high enough that you could get several single function machines for the same price."

These sentiments have been repeated many times (usually by non-owners). I wonder if he has ever owned/used a Shopsmith Mark 5/V. He doesn't say.

[dusty]

I would be surprised if he has. He stated his own valued opinion about why the Shopsmith is not recommended and it has NOTHING to do with machine capability. It is a typical negative opinion that totally fails to acknowledge lack of space to house multiple machines and it does not address the fact that low cost machines are usually of lesser quality.

You can put Mattias Wandels' opinion in a dark hole somewhere and leave it.

[BuckeyeDennis]

Regarding Wandel's criticism of combination machines in general, one could make the same argument about smartphones. I was a long-time holdout myself. And even now that I have one, depending on what I am using it for, I would almost always prefer one of the following devices:

1) my old flip phone
2) my iPad
3) my laptop
4) my desktop PC
5) my scientific calculator
6) my point-and-shoot camera
7) my DSLR camera
8) my 52" HDTV
9) my kids' Wii game console
10) my wife's GPS navigator
11) a flashlight
13) an iPod nano
14) a universal remote
15) a Wixey angle gauge

And yes, the smart phone cost more than many of those devices. But I can't carry all that stuff around with me, so I'd buy the smart phone again.

But I certainly wouldn't pay full retail price for a second one. Instead, I'd get a different device to complement it.

[wa2crk]

So he doesn't like it but he does use it? Verrrry interesting.
Bill

[Ed in Tampa]

I have a shopsmith, I use my shopsmith, I love my shopsmith, but in all honesty the criticisms listed above for a shopsmith are true. I think it is wrong to call a guy out and infer he doesn't know what he is talking about when he points out valid shortcomings of the Shopsmith.

It is less than honest to deny that there are compromises that must be made with the shopsmith. That it has shortcomings and if the room is available that separate stationary machines are usually superior.

I said usually superior, but not always.

It is nice to have a stationary table saw around which a huge infeed, outfeed, and side tables have been built. Or even better a sliding carriage.

It is nice to have each machine set up exactly to do the task at hand and to be able to move back and forth with out having to redo setups and configuration. Also most standalone machines have superior capacities and lend themselves to be build in or with fixed infeed and outfeed tables.

No one can deny that and to try to claim the shopsmith is better than those is nonsense.

However most of us don't have the space we can dedicate to such, or we found a deal on a shopsmith, or like we to tinker and shopsmith lends itself to that.

While we may not like what someone says about Shopsmith that we have come to love, it makes you look silly to deny that there are not compromises that must be made to use one or that having standalone separate machines built precisely for one purpose don't tend make the task easier.

Let the flames begin.

[JPG]

I have a shopsmith, I use my shopsmith, I love my shopsmith, but in all honesty the criticisms listed above for a shopsmith are true. I think it is wrong to call a guy out and infer he doesn't know what he is talking about when he points out valid shortcomings of the Shopsmith.

It is less than honest to deny that there are compromises that must be made with the shopsmith. That it has shortcomings and if the room is available that separate stationary machines are usually superior.

I said usually superior, but not always.

It is nice to have a stationary table saw around which a huge infeed, outfeed, and side tables have been built. Or even better a sliding carriage.

It is nice to have each machine set up exactly to do the task at hand and to be able to move back and forth with out having to redo setups and configuration. Also most standalone machines have superior capacities and lend themselves to be build in or with fixed infeed and outfeed tables.

No one can deny that and to try to claim the shopsmith is better than those is nonsense.

However most of us don't have the space we can dedicate to such, or we found a deal on a shopsmith, or like we to tinker and shopsmith lends itself to that.

While we may not like what someone says about Shopsmith that we have come to love, it makes you look silly to deny that there are not compromises that must be made to use one or that having standalone separate machines built precisely for one purpose don't tend make the task easier.

Let the flames begin.

We need no flames. You have shed more than enough bright light on the subject.

I somewhat regret causing this discussion.

I dare say he has a similar opinion of just about everything else out there, since he has 'made his own' of many tools.

I thought since he has not(to my knowledge) made his own from scratch he accepts it as tolerable. As for tracking, that is a common 'problem' with every belt sander that I have ever used. Much patience is needed to 'get it right'. Wonder if he has either 'lubed' it or tore it down and cleaned it up(or crowned the belt).

I do not wish him to go into a deep dark hole at all. That is silly negativism on 'our' part.

He has his right to his opinion regardless of how lacking of experience he has using it, and like us all the right to express it.

Remember he seems to be smarter than most of us and he does seem to be logical in his thinking so to conclude what he has regarding 'multi-purpose' machines just plain makes perfect sense. That does not mean I agree, but merely understand how he got there.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but he does not see it.

Now if we stood back and take a critical look at our favorite multi-function tool we would quickly notice some shortcomings(as well as advantages) but we have come to recognize there are 'workarounds' and alternate ways to do things. And, we have acquired a mindset that makes those multiple resetups minimal by forethought.

Although setting up is a somewhat valid criticism, those who expound that are guilty of shallow 'thought processes'. All those stand alone tools also involve setting up. Difference being for example, that a saw setup need not be tore down to use the drill press.

I still respect 'wood gears' for his knowledge and independant thinking.

I dare say he has a similar opinion of just about everything else out there, since he has 'made his own' of many tools.(repetition intentional)

[paulrussell]

The issue at hand is simple. There is no "one size fits all" solution in woodworking, and to suggest otherwise is folly.

What is the créme dela créme solution for one doesn't make it the same for all. We all have our own criteria which varies greatly:

1) Finances
2) Space
3) Interest range (some are specialists, others generalists)
4) Power considerations
(110, 220, three-phase, etc)
5) Nostalgia
(this is my dad's axe. I've taken good care of it. I've replace the handle twice, and the head once.)
6) Physical strength or health issues.
7) Work habits (Don't change what ain't broken)

And I'm sure I am missing a half-dozen or more.

If I had a huge workshop, I would have an army of stand-alone tools. I would still have my Shopsmith as well. Mostly due to 5 and 7 above.

[Ed in Tampa]

And, we have acquired a mindset that makes those multiple resetups minimal by forethought.

I knows my problem...... my forethought is shot!!!!

Most if not all my resetups are due to "Aw Sh$ts"
I make a critical piece and with forethought I make two extra, then I go to the next step and screw up one of them, then the next step I screw up another and finally I screw up the last one and I have to kick my forethought in butt and go back to resetup which I'm never ever 100% successful in duplicating back to the original. So I talk to myself alot.

Well at least now I have something to add when I talk to myself I will just repeat JPG's immortal words above and say forethought next time I'm kicking you to the curb.

[robinson46176]

Just read my signature line...

[dusty]

I have a shopsmith, I use my shopsmith, I love my shopsmith, but in all honesty the criticisms listed above for a shopsmith are true. I think it is wrong to call a guy out and infer he doesn't know what he is talking about when he points out valid shortcomings of the Shopsmith.

It is less than honest to deny that there are compromises that must be made with the shopsmith. That it has shortcomings and if the room is available that separate stationary machines are usually superior.

I said usually superior, but not always.

It is nice to have a stationary table saw around which a huge infeed, outfeed, and side tables have been built. Or even better a sliding carriage.

It is nice to have each machine set up exactly to do the task at hand and to be able to move back and forth with out having to redo setups and configuration. Also most standalone machines have superior capacities and lend themselves to be build in or with fixed infeed and outfeed tables.

No one can deny that and to try to claim the shopsmith is better than those is nonsense.

However most of us don't have the space we can dedicate to such, or we found a deal on a shopsmith, or like we to tinker and shopsmith lends itself to that.

While we may not like what someone says about Shopsmith that we have come to love, it makes you look silly to deny that there are not compromises that must be made to use one or that having standalone separate machines built precisely for one purpose don't tend make the task easier.

Let the flames begin.

Ed, To which criticism listed above do you refer?

Ed, Who is trying to claim that the Shopsmith is better than standalone machines that exhibit superior qualities? However, don't ignore the fact that many stand alone machines are inferior no matter what you compare them to.

Ed, Who is denying that compromises must be made by Shopsmith owners?

I would love to have a huge work shop stuffed full of some of the finest wood working machines made but I don't and I never will have. Therefore, I use what I have and most of the time, I get the job done. Yes, it takes longer but one of the compromises that I have made sorta counters that - power stations and power stands. Yup, trending towards an affordable but reliable Shopsmith standalone shop. A belt sander, a disk sander, a drill press, a table saw, a band saw, a jointer, a planer, a horizontal drilling machine and a lathe (that hardly ever gets used), a shaper and a router table.

Ed, Who denies that having standalone separate machines built precisely for one purpose tends to make the task easier? If I was attempting to make a living in my shop, I would certainly have some dedicated machines that I don't have BUT there would be a Shopsmith in there somewhere.

BTW, Who called anyone out?