What's so great about the Shopsmith 10E's & 10ER's anyway?

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Chad
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What's so great about the Shopsmith 10E's & 10ER's anyway?

Post by Chad »

You're reading this, so the title has got your attention. I'll try to keep this short and to the point. It's a damp, cool evening here in southwest Ohio, and I've had the title of this page on my mind all day.

Ever since I joined this forum I've read posts from many of you. A lot of posts. Some of which are about the Shopsmith 10E & 10ER. I know the Shopsmith's history, and they are the 1st. production model of a Shopsmith. I also know without out the 10E; we probably wouldn't have the Mark V and current Mark 7. Along with the Mark II and the original Mark VII.

I danced around asking the question on another page a few days ago:
Chad wrote:I still don't understand the 10E's/ER's.
JayArras wrote:
Chad wrote:I still don't understand the 10E's/ER's.
What don't you understand, Chad?
Chad wrote:Ohhh, I'll save response to that for another time and place.
It was on https://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/view ... 72#p274740 a page of two trying to sell their Shopsmiths. One of which was a 10ER.

I'm not trying to stir the pot, but I don't understand why it's still popular with a lot of you. To me, it seems like a older (and I'm sure better built) version of the Mark II. I've often thought of buying a 10ER and making it into a dedicated drill press. It wouldn't take up much floor space like my Mark V. I see 10ER's for sale in my area constantly, so I know they're still plentiful. But, I can't seem to bring myself to get one. I'm still too much of a fan of my Mark V.

Are the 10E's & 10ER's a nostalgia piece? Or a collectors item? I see many of you have restored them. I just don't know why one would continue to use one on a perhaps daily basis. The Mark V model 500, 510 or 520 seem vastly superior to a 10E and 10ER in almost every way I can think of.

I can understand the collectible aspect of them. I myself collect all sorts of antiques. From antique farm equipment and tractors, to furniture, just to name a few. Heck, my daily driver is a 1989 GMC Sierra with over 400,000 miles. Yes, I love old things.

So, I want to hear from you. Please, post your comments, questions, etc. I want to hear from as many 10E & 10ER owners as possible.

I'll ask the question again. What's so great about the Shopsmith 10E's & 10ER's anyway?

I look forward to hearing from you!

Thanks.
Chad Nevels
  • ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    1963 Shopsmith Mark V "Goldie" 1-1/8 hp Serial # 379185
    1980 Shopsmith Mark V 500
    1994 Shopsmith Mark V 510
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    1994 OKUMA LB15 II OSP7000
    2017 OKUMA LB3000 EXII SPACE TURN MY OSP P300LA
garys
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Re: What's so great about the Shopsmith 10E's & 10ER's anyway?

Post by garys »

Chad wrote: I'll ask the question again. What's so great about the Shopsmith 10E's & 10ER's anyway?
They work!
When it comes to tools, that is all that matters.
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JPG
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Re: What's so great about the Shopsmith 10E's & 10ER's anyway?

Post by JPG »

1) With the speed changer the range is greater than the M5/V on both high and low ends.

2) The cast iron beast has more mass that results in more stable platform as a lathe.

3) The 'non-late' production has way tubes 1/4" thick. (see #2)

4) They are simple machines that 'simply' do not break down(cease to function properly).

5) Nostalgia, maybe, but functionality is there.

6) Table saw - nope, tis small even by M5 comparison and very underpowered with a 1/2 hp motor.

7) Drill press - BINGO a damn good one.

8) (-) Replacement parts relegated to used market.

9) (-) A very heavy beast to move around(see #2).

10) Reversible(depends upon motor)

11) Typically very cheap to acquire. Market sorta flooded and demand sorta low.

JMHO
╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10
E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
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jsburger
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Re: What's so great about the Shopsmith 10E's & 10ER's anyway?

Post by jsburger »

As Garys says they work. They are as good a drill press as a MK v, just as good at disk and drum sanding, as good a lathe, built like a tank, with the adapters you can run all the MK V SPT's. How many other 70+ year old machines can do that and still have parts available. The are just as usable today as they were 70 years ago.

For me it is about preserving history. This machine started the home work shop revolution after WWII. There is another thing for me. Hans Goldschmidt invented the Shopsmith after WWII. He did not have the money to finance the venture. He worked for a man named Bob Chambers in a shipyard in California during WWII. It turned out that Bob Chambers and his brother Frank financed Magna Engineering to produce the Shopsmith. The Chambers were from Salt Lake City, UT and grew up in Magna UT. I live about 35 miles from Magna. Magna Engineering was named for Magna, UT.

Hans had two copies of Power Tool Woodworking For Everyone in his personal library. Skip Campbell found them and bought them from a book store in California in 2001. One was signed by RJ DeCristoforo and one was not. I bought the unsigned copy in 2011. I told Skip if he ever wanted to sell the signed copy I would like first dibs.

In 2019 Skip decided to sell the signed copy. He emailed me and I bought it. He included a copy of Chicken Tonight Feathers Tomorrow by Mary Cristy RJ's wife. It is a book about their early years together writing. It includes a chapter about PTWFE. She describes how they were at Bob Chambers house for dinner and they surprised RJ with a pre-publication copy of PTWFE. The book includes a hand written letter from Mary to Bob and June Chambers thanking them for their time at Shopsmith.


Argh, The last picture is the unsigned book that is already mounted and should be the second picture. The unmounted book is the signed copy. Don't know why some of the pictures are oriented wrong. I have never had that problem before. Sorry.
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John & Mary Burger
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JPG
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Re: What's so great about the Shopsmith 10E's & 10ER's anyway?

Post by JPG »

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╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10
E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
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jsburger
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Re: What's so great about the Shopsmith 10E's & 10ER's anyway?

Post by jsburger »

JPG wrote:See attachments
Thank you James. I don't know what happened. They were all fine here and I have never had a problem before. I knew you would be there. :) :)
John & Mary Burger
Eagle's Lair Woodshop
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rjent
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Re: What's so great about the Shopsmith 10E's & 10ER's anyway?

Post by rjent »

Well .... LOL

I use my 10ER(s) for a lot of things. I do a lot of table saw work on small parts (drawer sides, posts, lids) where you don't need a lot of power, but need accurate adjustability. The quill adjustment is just outstanding in moving the quill (saw blade) a few thousands at time as is the table raiser. Hands down the best SS for accuracy and repeatability for tool adjustment.

Drum sanding, jig (scroll) saw work (you need the 10ER jigsaw). I could go on, but we all know the flexibility of the shopsmith system.

Just my .02
Dick
1965 Mark VII S/N 407684
1951 10 ER S/N ER 44570 -- Reborn 9/16/14
1950 10 ER S/N ER 33479 Reborn July 2016
1950 10 ER S/N ER 39671
1951 jigsaw X 2
1951 !0 ER #3 in rebuild
500, Jointer, Bsaw, Bsander, Planer
2014 Mark 7 W/Lift assist - 14 4" Jointer - DC3300
And a plethora of small stuff .....

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chapmanruss
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Re: What's so great about the Shopsmith 10E's & 10ER's anyway?

Post by chapmanruss »

I have to agree with what the others have already said about the Model 10's. I currently own 4 of them and enough parts to probably make a fifth. Two are restored and are ones I am keeping. I am currently working on restoring another one which I will sell and the fourth is waiting its turn. I do own two Mark V's, one is a 520 and the other upgraded completely to a Mark 7. I also have a Mark 2 so I understand what you are talking about in it's comparison. The one thing I would add about the Model 10 being a great drill press is the table and its ability to do compound angle drilling. See Shopsmith Shavings Issue No. 5 page 4.

Chad you asked,

Are the 10E's & 10ER's a nostalgia piece? Or a collectors item?

Yes to both. As I said I currently own four and plan on keeping three of them. They are S/N R64000, the first Model 10 I restored, S/N 1077, one of the original 250 Model 10E Shopsmith made and sold and yet to be restored S/N 1033, again one of the original 250 Model 10E Shopsmith made and sold. To me these are both nostalgia and collectors items. Beyond that the restored ones work and do work.

I see many of you have restored them.

I have restored 20 Model 10's so far. I really enjoy working on these tools. I do it as a hobby than sell the restored tool for someone else to get a quality tool to use and enjoy. I have restored Mark 5's too.

I just don't know why one would continue to use one on a perhaps daily basis. The Mark V model 500, 510 or 520 seem vastly superior to a 10E and 10ER in almost every way I can think of.

For the answer to this I refer to the comments above including yours about thinking of getting one for a drill press. Some comment that they are under-powered with their 1/2 HP motor but many had the 3/4 HP motor and one I purchased had a newer 1 HP motor on it. That motor is on the one I am currently restoring, an upgraded 10E. Both the Model 10's and the Mark 5/V's have their stronger and weaker features. I do use my Mark V a lot in restoring these tools but I have no problem using one or more of my Model 10's for a project to have different setups on different tools.
Russ

Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
Mark V 520
All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.
Has Speed Changer, 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E's S/N's 1076 & 1077 oldest ones I have restored. Mark 2 S/N 85959 restored. Others to be restored.
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Re: What's so great about the Shopsmith 10E's & 10ER's anyway?

Post by RFGuy »

Lots of great answers already in this thread. Unfortunately, I don't own a 10E/10ER so I have no direct experience to draw on for commenting. I did try to find one last year, but could never find one in decent shape to buy in my area. Probably for the best, because I have a small shop and really can't fit it unless I make it a dedicated drill press on the wall. What I have read online and heard mentioned on assorted YouTube channels is that there was kind of a golden age of machinery manufacture in this country. I don't know the exact dates or if this is even 100% true, but I think approximately 1900-1950ish machinery is highly sought after. In particular large format bandsaws (e.g. 36" Oliver bandsaw, 20" Rockwell/Delta bandsaw), vintage drill presses (Delta, Rockwell/Delta, Walker-Turner, etc.), large format jointers (Porter), etc., etc. are some examples of excellent vintage woodworking/metalworking tools that have been restored. Oftentimes this is because these older tools have more capacity, but also some of them have precision rivaling or surpassing many modern equivalents. I am not a machinist, but I have also heard some similar comments from them, e.g. older Bridgeport mills are better than the newer ones. I believe the 10E/10ER fit right into this category of vintage machinery produced in this era before cost cutting, knock-offs and offshore manufacturing resulted in more inferior tools being introduced to the market. So, I believe one part of it is that tools from this era were better built and hence last longer, but I think the other part of it is their performance vs. cost. While the 10E/10ER were targeted to the home woodworker, a lot of these vintage machinery were designed and built for production woodworking shops. If you can find one of them and fully restore it, you may have a tool that costs an order of magnitude less than equivalent modern woodworking tools yet performs better. If you have the space in your shop, who wouldn't want a shop full of restored vintage tools, often production level tools, to play with? Perfect example is Frank Howarth (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmDAInbnPYQ) - I don't watch his channel much but he has a shop full of vintage woodworking tools that many of us would drool over...

For tablesaw work, I wouldn't trade my Mark V for a 10ER, but for lathe work or drill press work I wouldn't mind trying it on a 10ER as I believe it would be better than my Mark V. Again, I have no direct experience with a 10ER so I am mostly expressing others opinions I have seen on this forum or elsewhere on the internet. The 10E/10ER is just a well designed and manufactured tool from this golden era of machinery.
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Chad
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Re: What's so great about the Shopsmith 10E's & 10ER's anyway?

Post by Chad »

Wow! It's only been about 24 hours, and to be honest I wasn't expecting this much of a response so quickly. I certainly have learned a lot about the Shopsmith 10E's & 10ER's in a very short amount of time. From what I've learned so far; I can see why so many of you continue to use, and revive these machines. Also, the back detailed stories behind the creation of these models is more documented than I thought. I already knew the Shopsmith history from about the mid 1960's to the early 1970's is spotty at best. I wouldn't have guessed that the history prior to 1964 was more well known.

Just so I make myself clear. I was not attempting to start a debate, or put down the Shopsmith 10E's & 10ER's, or their owners. I merely wanted to better understand why these machines have remained so popular after all these decades since the end of there production. I'm glad that no one, so far, has read the title of this thread, and immediately had their blood pressure skyrocket from intense anger and rage.

I like what I've learned so far, and hope to hear from more owners/users/collectors. Keep the knowledge, comments, stories, and opinions coming! Thanks.
Chad Nevels
  • ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    1963 Shopsmith Mark V "Goldie" 1-1/8 hp Serial # 379185
    1980 Shopsmith Mark V 500
    1994 Shopsmith Mark V 510
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    1994 OKUMA LB15 II OSP7000
    2017 OKUMA LB3000 EXII SPACE TURN MY OSP P300LA
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