woodshop nerdery youtube channel

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woodshopnerdery
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Re: woodshop nerdery youtube channel

Post by woodshopnerdery »

RFGuy wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:40 pm So, you don't need a more powerful motor because you switched to HEPA in my opinion.
If all of your assumptions are true, then of course you are correct. But, I checked some numbers on the Wynn website that might surprise you.

These are the filters Wynn's online selection tool recommends for a 14 inch DC.

35C222NANO
Closed top, MERV 15, Nanofiber filter media, 222 sq ft (open pleat design), 17.5” diameter x 23” tall, outer cage – no inner cage
35A274BLOL
Closed top, MERV 10, 80/20 Blend filter media, 274 sq ft, 17.5” diameter x 23” tall, outer cage – no inner cage.
Notice the the HIGHER efficiency MERV 15 filter has 52 less SQ FT than the lower efficiency MERV 10 filter. So your assumption that HEPA filters will compensate for loss of airflow by adding more surface area may not be correct. Perhaps the manufacture may be motivated to put LESS filter material in a higher efficiency filter to meet a certain price point for the market. Or maybe the filter media is thicker and just can't be crammed in as tightly.

Now the question is for the Wynn MERV 15 filter, is 222 sq ft adequate surface area to maintain air flow on my system? If they would report the CFM capacity per area unit of the filter material I could calculate it. But they do not give that number. I cannot find that number for any pleated filters. For example, I have seen a 1 micron felt bag report 50 CFM capacity per sq ft of material. In that case I can calculate the area of material and multiply by 50.

Keep in mind, I am talking about MY DUST COLLECTOR specifical. In my first video I measured the "free fan" (no filter installed) air flow at 570 CFM. Then with my freshly cleaned felt bag install I measured 566 CFM. So, if all of your assumptions are correct I would stand to gain 4 CFM in increased performance assuming a HEPA cartridge offers ZERO airflow resistance. On the other hand, if the HEPA cartridge introduces more airflow resistance than my felt bag then I stand to loss CFM not gain. Seems like a very poor risk/reward proposition.

Note, also in my first video I tested the air flow when my felt bag was clogged. It was 322 CFM. Thats a 244 CFM drop. This shows how much impact filter clogging can have. Fortunately felt bags are easy to clean with a few seconds of tapping and shaking to recover most of the CFM loss. It is my understanding that the closely packed pleats of a HEPA filter are not as easy to clean and therefore harder to recover the CFM loss due to clogging.
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Re: woodshop nerdery youtube channel

Post by RFGuy »

Neither of those Wynn filters (35C222NANO and 35A274BLOL) you listed are HEPA rated according to their website, so I am not sure they are relevant to this discussion. I don't design filters for a living, but my understanding (and I could be wrong) is that the media used in HEPA filters is more restrictive. However, as I stated previously, I do believe the manufacturers typically increase the surface area on a HEPA filter to increase the volumetric flow rate through them to compensate. Another technique is to put HEPA filters in parallel to boost flow rate (commonly see this on premium cyclone DC's), but of course that is more expensive. I believe you have a bag filter today, correct? I believe these are commonly a polyester fiber filter bag, but they are one single layer (no pleating). By comparison a similar volume HEPA filter would have pleats greatly increasing the filter area beyond what you have today. It could still be more restrictive than a brand new, clean filter bag, but I suspect it is on par for flow rate with what you've got now. It is hard to find specs on filter bags for comparison, but from one website that I found HEPA filters often start at a MERV 13 rating, but some are MERV 16 or even higher. Polyester filter bags were shown to be in a range of MERV 10 to MERV13 (1.0μm filter bags were MERV 13), so perhaps a bit less restrictive than an entry level HEPA. There are tons of applications for filters and numerous different filter media available so I am sure we could find examples that skew one way or the other. However, I think you will find that for similar filtration efficiency ratings (comparing apples to apples), the flow rate is likely near identical between a HEPA filter and a non-HEPA filter. This makes sense doesn't it? No matter what filter media is used, if the collection efficiency is similar then the flow rates are likely similar (for comparable sized filters). Now, for your application, I believe you have a Shop Fox DC with a 2.5μm filter bag. Trying to compare it to a HEPA filter with a 0.3μm rating is likely going to be more restrictive for you (apples to oranges). It is almost an order of magnitude lower filter rating. Increasing filter surface area will help to a certain point, but likely replacing your 2.5μm bag filter with a 0.3μm HEPA is going to cut down on airflow for you. How much is really the question...
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Shopsmith Mark .5 Wooden Model: Woodworking Project Build Part 1 of 4

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woodshop nerdery

Watch it here: https://youtu.be/1UEwB04QxI0

Woodworking Project Build. Shopsmith wooden model. This project challenged me to learn new woodworking skills and practice existing skills. It seems like I have used every tool in the garage on this one; table saw, band saw, dovetail saw, files, belt sander, sanding blocks, drum sander, forstner bits, paddle bits, brad point, drill press, horizontal boring, Micro Jig Micro-dial and GRR-RIPPER. In addition this project finally forced me to begin learning lathe turning. Which means I had to begin learning lathe chisel sharpening.

Come to think of it, I don't believe I used the disc sander!

Jim Sevilla's video - https://youtu.be/6KD3ibWc3sE
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Shopsmith Mark .5 Wooden Model: Woodworking Project Build Part 2 of 4

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woodshop nerdery

Watch it here: https://youtu.be/-0J3sNeC_rQ

Woodworking Project Build. Shopsmith wooden model. This project challenged me to learn new woodworking skills and practice existing skills. It seems like I have used every tool in the garage on this one; table saw, band saw, dovetail saw, files, belt sander, sanding blocks, drum sander, forstner bits, paddle bits, brad point, drill press, horizontal boring, Micro Jig Micro-dial and GRR-RIPPER. In addition this project finally forced me to begin learning lathe turning. Which means I had to begin learning lathe chisel sharpening.
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Shopsmith Mark .5 Wooden Model: Woodworking Project Build Part 3 of 4

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woodshop nerdery

Watch it here: https://youtu.be/sa2MxEPHAsY

Woodworking Project Build. Shopsmith wooden model. This project challenged me to learn new woodworking skills and practice existing skills. It seems like I have used every tool in the garage on this one; table saw, band saw, dovetail saw, files, belt sander, sanding blocks, drum sander, forstner bits, paddle bits, brad point, drill press, horizontal boring, Micro Jig Micro-dial and GRR-RIPPER. In addition this project finally forced me to begin learning lathe turning. Which means I had to begin learning lathe chisel sharpening.
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Re: woodshop nerdery youtube channel

Post by Majones1 »

Looks like a good skill builder. I’m looking forward to the jointer and bandsaw SPTs. :)
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Chad
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Shopsmith Mark .5 Wooden Model: Woodworking Project Build Part 4 of 4

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woodshop nerdery

Watch it here: https://youtu.be/HFT0IsqnItk

Woodworking Project Build. Shopsmith wooden model. This project challenged me to learn new woodworking skills and practice existing skills. It seems like I have used every tool in the garage on this one; table saw, band saw, dovetail saw, files, belt sander, sanding blocks, drum sander, forstner bits, paddle bits, brad point, drill press, horizontal boring, Micro Jig Micro-dial and GRR-RIPPER. In addition this project finally forced me to begin learning lathe turning. Which means I had to begin learning lathe chisel sharpening.

For information about the plans for this project see Jim Sevilla's video - https://youtu.be/6KD3ibWc3sE
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Chad
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Harry Potter Themed Broom Holder: Woodworking Project

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woodshop nerdery

Watch it here: https://youtu.be/TfIzCmRfkgI

Woodworking project: Making a broom holder modified from a 1930's Deltagram Magazine with Harry, Ron, Hermione and Dumbledore.

I use Inkscape to design the patterns, my Shopsmith tools to machine the parts, and Rit Dye to color the characters.

Drawing Lessons for Kids - https://artprojectsforkids.org/

Woodworkers Journal Sponge Applicator Tip - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk-xB...
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Regular Broom to Halloween Broom: Spiral Cut Dowel Handle on a Table Saw

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woodshop nerdery

Watch it here: https://youtu.be/Dbq30V-mLjY

I make three brooms for Halloween costumes or decoration from a regular whisk broom. I use a spiral cutting technique on the table saw and Rit Dye to decorate the handle.
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