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Forum sections - suggestion

W3DRM

This probably needs to be addressed by a forum administrator but I'll throw out my idea so all can read it and make comments as they see fit.

QUESTION: Have you ever tried to find forum posts on pen turning using the search word of "pen"? Try it and you will find that you will get a result of zero items found. Perhaps I don't understand the search function but in any other forum I frequent, it would give me any forum post that contains the word "pen". That does not seem to be the case in this forum.

SUGGESTION: Add a "Pen Turning" entry as a forum by itself. It would certainly make it easier for everyone looking for information on pen turning to find without having to scroll through the entire SS Forum.

admin

Because we have thousands of posts the default for the search function is has a minimum of four letters. I got 178 results for "pen turning" and 14 results when only searching in titles.

paulmcohen

I would like to see a forum where we can discuss usage and installation of various Shopsmith accessories. Similar to the review section but focused on how to. I am going crazy trying to figure out the Kreg Fence and don't seem to know where to post the question to get an answer. I have resorted to emailing anyone claiming to own one.

dusty

I too get 178 returns. Look no further than the first one and you should understand the frustration. The search returns on this:

The demo would have to be compelling even at $295.50. Again, I do hobby work. If I was turning out projects that have to satisfy a customer and be competitive at the same time I would be inclined to invest more freely.

Not the result one would hope for. This one example returned 5 pages of posts and after scanning all of them "manually" we find there is nothing about "pen turning". Question: Are the quotes suppose to do something to limit the search?

What am I doing wrong? I've posted this question before and got nowhere so I just shutup but it seems I might not be the only one who needs tutoring in the "search function".

A second example of the search function for "pen turning": I am no electric motor tech, but I often hear exactly that noise when turning off many electric motors. I can not say what it is, but I think it might be a normal noise. You might want to contact the SS toll free technical help line for their opinion. 1 800 762 7555.

W3DRM

Well, it looks like perhaps I am not the only one having problems with the search function. No where is it mentioned in the FAQ's or in the search area itself that there is a minimum of four characters required to perform a search. The results certainly don't even give a hint that there are any such limitations.

Furthermore, as DUSTY has said, the 178 hits on "Pen turning" don't all pertain to pen turning. It appears that with or without the quotes around the desired search doesn't make any difference.

Lastly, I also suggested that a "Pen Turning" topic be added to these forums. No one has replied to that request at all. Having only a very few basic forum topics is what is causing these search issues to come to the forefront. Since the Shopsmith system has so many varied capabilities, I would think topics on the various attachments and functions would really be helpful to everyone.

dusty

In all fairness to the Shopsmith website crew - they do have a project underway to revise the forum categories. These things take time and are handled according to priorities.

I have gone to two other forums to do research on the search function. They all work the same way - with regards to the qoutation marks.

admin

When using the advanced search choose "sort by relevancy" and only in the titles, that should get you a better result since the default is "sort by date". You can mess around with the other advanced search functions and get a little further. Out of the forum software programs out there this one was by far the best, but the search is not exactly Google...however you can also try this approach to getting better results

go to google.com and type this into the search box

site:www.shopsmith.net pen turning

OR

site:www.shopsmith.net any other search term

Bruce

drmcroberts wrote Lastly, I also suggested that a "Pen Turning" topic be added to these forums. No one has replied to that request at all.

I personally have nothing against pen turning, but it does not interest me in the least. I wonder what percentage of SS users would have an interest in such a thing. You could post a poll if you wanted to know. Then SS would have some numbers to use to make their decision on creating another forum. I do believe we need more forums, but having too many would be worse than too few, if you ask me.

W3DRM

dusty wroteIn all fairness to the Shopsmith website crew - they do have a project underway to revise the forum categories. These things take time and are handled according to priorities.

I have gone to two other forums to do research on the search function. They all work the same way - with regards to the qoutation marks.

Okay, it's now a month later and no progress is apparent relative to adding new categories to the SS forum. Whether my comments are fair or not is purely subjective. My personal feeling is that this forum is not very user friendly relative to being able to find specific areas of interest solely due to the lack of adequate available categories. Adding to that is the fact that the search function simply doesn't work to a level that would make it usable. Am I being too critical? Perhaps, but try finding specific items and you'll find you can't really get to the subjects that are relevant to your search - "pen turning" is just one example of the shortcomings as has been mentioned in the replies above. If we had additional categories, the ability to find pertinent information would be immensely improved.

Sorry to be so negative but until this issue is resolved, I will not be doing much searching or reading in this forum.

W3DRM

Bruce wroteI personally have nothing against pen turning, but it does not interest me in the least. I wonder what percentage of SS users would have an interest in such a thing. You could post a poll if you wanted to know. Then SS would have some numbers to use to make their decision on creating another forum. I do believe we need more forums, but having too many would be worse than too few, if you ask me.

Bruce,

I don't diagree with you at all. Your comment only adds to the reason for adding additional categories (not forums). Additional categories allow you, me and the other participants in this SS forum to read and reply to those areas we are interested in. It also eliminates our having to wade through the topics we have no interest in. I'm not trying to add to the complexity of this site, I am merely attempting to get some additional topics added so we can more adequately support the needs of the users of this forum.

I am the webmaster for numerous websites and am fully aware of the overhead and effort it takes to maintain forums and to tailor them to the needs of the individual users. It's true you can't possibly address all issues and desires of every user but, oversimplifying a forum by only having a few categories or topics only adds to the frustrations users have when looking for information.

I'll close by simply asking two questions:

What is the purpose of the SS Forum?
If the users can't easily find the information they need or are looking for, then what good is the forum?

admin

We honestly have not decided on whether or not to add new forum categories when I asked some time ago here I got mixed reviews and I had to defend why we wanted to create new categories.

The search is what it is it's not Google however suggestions have been made on how to use it and it is actually quite effective if used in advanced mode. When we made the decision to use this forum software it was and still is by far the best forum program available.

I would say the effort we have put into this forum is a great improvement over the other major SS forum which has neither subjects or a search

charlese

Don- I think the search function is part of "V bulletin" . V-bulletin puts out one of the best pieces of software for forums. It is used by several (maybe many) forums. I think it is not Shopsmith's fault! As Admin has said - they are working on ways to improve the Forum. It's truly your choice to use it, or not! To me this forum has been a plethora of ideas and information.

fixit

charlese wrote... I think it is not Shopsmith's fault! As Admin has said - they are working on ways to improve the Forum. It's truly your choice to use it, or not! To me this forum has been a plethora of ideas and information.

Hi Chuck,

I agree with you about gaining many ideas from the forum - I have too. But it wouldn't hurt to have a few more categories added. Perhaps as a trial categories could be added for the major SPTs and see how much traffic they get. If not much they could be deleted and replaced with something else.

Whatever Shopsmith decides on the forum structure the one thing I REALLY appreciate is the ability to go immediately to the first UNREAD post under each subject. This is the first forum I've seen that has that feature and it should be on all of them!

W3DRM

charlese wroteDon- I think the search function is part of "V bulletin" . V-bulletin puts out one of the best pieces of software for forums. It is used by several (maybe many) forums. I think it is not Shopsmith's fault! As Admin has said - they are working on ways to improve the Forum. It's truly your choice to use it, or not! To me this forum has been a plethora of ideas and information.

Chuck,

I am NOT bashing or criticizing this forum or the forum software being used! At least that is not my intent. I am simply attempting to suggest that it could be improved by adding some categories to the forum. Nothing more, nothing less.

As a SS owner and user, I too have found lots of valuable information within the forum. IMHO having only "Beginning Woodworking", "General Woodworking", "Woodworking Tool Review", and "Community" topics, results in a less than adequate selection to find what one may be looking for. My original post relative to attempting to find information on using SS equipment for Pen Turning results in mostly non-pen turning related posts. Thus the reason for the initial post. Additionally, the SS suite of tools each have their own unique features. Adding categories for each of the functions would allow forum users to post and find information about such things as lathe operations as well as perhaps a sub-section under "Lathe Operations" such as pen-turning.

Bottom line, short of having a separate topic, if I can't find a specific item via a search, then this forum becomes of little use to me and as you suggest, I will most likely not visit it very often.

reible

Hi,

I noticed the search on "pen turning" subject and I recall very few posts here on that subject. I'm not sure if that is lack of interest or more likely because a lot of the turning people also belong to turning forums and thus are more active there. I personally have never got interested in pen turning but by the way I see more and more catalog items this must be a growing group of interest. One of the catalogs on turning I got not long ago must be 1/3 pen turning stuff. I may have to give it a try sometime just to see what it all about.

However more to the point people here (including me) have a, lets call it, a habit of posting responces back and the subject often goes from here to there and back again. It is not uncommon for a thread to have at least 3 or 4 shifts as it goes and it may not have even started in the "proper" catagory anyway. This does make things confussing and almost requires you to read each and every post no mater what the title or catagory. It is not bad for some of us who check in several times a day but when I'm gone for 2 weeks and try to catch up it really becomes, how should I say this, annoying and drives me up the wall.... Others seem to get along with it so I have to too. Would more catagories help, my guess is no and the more and more posters we have them more and more confused I get. I've dropped out of several forums for just this reason, for me bigger is not better. I reach overload and I go looking some where else and google is really good for this.

We are coming close to the 3000 mark in members which has in my past experence been a major mile stone/ mill stone. I'm interested in where this forum goes and how it fairs for me. I always favor keeping it simple.

I've been on several forums that use this software and various versions/options... it's not bad, but the search function needs work. When you do the google searches it is much easier and results are much better. In fact some forums build the search with a google option for the site.

(Please see the earlier admin post for an example how to google this site.)

Ed

paulmcohen

admin wroteThe search is what it is it's not Google however suggestions have been made on how to use it and it is actually quite effective if used in advanced mode. When we made the decision to use this forum software it was and still is by far the best forum program available.

I work for a multi-billion dollar company with a household name and we just made the decision to switch to the same software. I believe you made the correct decision of forum software despite it poor search engine. When we figure out how to get Google to search it correctly, I will send you mail.

W3DRM

Okay, I'll have to agree that simple is better. But, as you said, if you don't visit the forum on a daily or regular basis, it can be daunting to try to catch up when it's been a week or more since you last visited.

I also see that there are 2768 members. However, out of that "large" membership, only 83 have posted more than 10 times. That says that 2.998% of the members are active contributors while 97.001% have only registered and posted up to 10 times with the vast majority at 0 or only a few posts since joining. The question that needs to be asked is why is it there are 2768 members but only 83 who participate on a regular basis? Is it because they don't find anything here that interests them? Is it because they can't "find" anything that interests them? Or, is it something else that keeps them from joining in on the conversations or asking questions themselves?

I know, I'm stirring the pot here but I do wonder why this forum is used by so few of its members...

If I were running this forum (and thankfully, I'm not), I would be actively probing the membership to find out what could be done to make it more useful and informative for them. There are obviously many very talented folks who participate in this forum and I'm sure they have their own ideas of what would make this forum more useful for them.

EDIT: I just did a search and found that this was done back in July of this year. However, the lively discussion that followed clearly shows there are many different opinions on the topic. I would suggest that this topic continue to be discussed so the Admins can come to a decision that all can live with.

I came to this forum to find information about how the SS was being used for pen turning. While it's obvious there are few pen turning posts here, it is one of the many facets of the Shopsmith world - they even sell a pen turning set of chisels and have a sawdust session on pen turning. Pen turning is a growing hobby. I have just started turning pens myself and am in search of more information from those using the SS to turn. I must admit, I did learn one thing regarding using Google to search a site for a desired topic. That's a great tip I had no knowledge of until this thread started.

reible

drmcroberts wroteOkay, I'll have to agree that simple is better. But, as you said, if you don't visit the forum on a daily or regular basis, it can be daunting to try to catch up when it's been a week or more since you last visited.

I also see that there are 2768 members. However, out of that "large" membership, only 83 have posted more than 10 times. That says that 2.998% of the members are active contributors while 97.001% have only registered and posted up to 10 times with the vast majority at 0 or only a few posts since joining. The question that needs to be asked is why is it there are 2768 members but only 83 who participate on a regular basis? Is it because they don't find anything here that interests them? Is it because they can't "find" anything that interests them? Or, is it something else that keeps them from joining in on the conversations or asking questions themselves?

This is common in most forums in fact all forums I have seen. Not everyone comes and stays and some only lurk and it could be some of those don't feel computer savy enough to post or fear that someone will think they are dumb for asking about so and so... you name the reason they have it. If you want to see some current numbers at the ssug.org site for bot and scammers that subcribe and have to be clean out:

http://www.ssug.org/forums//viewtopic.php?t=1833

I'm sure some people do come here and think it is a waste of time. I'm sure some come to check it out but like one of the other two shopsmith areas fitting there needs better. I belong to all three but only post at 2. I still read all three.

I know, I'm stirring the pot here but I do wonder why this forum is used by so few of its members...

If I were running this forum (and thankfully, I'm not), I would be actively probing the membership to find out what could be done to make it more useful and informative for them. There are obviously many very talented folks who participate in this forum and I'm sure they have their own ideas of what would make this forum more useful for them.

Of course we do. And yes I'm glad I don't have to deal with the admin part of it. Been there and done that.

EDIT: I just did a search and found that this was done back in July of this year. However, the lively discussion that followed clearly shows there are many different opinions on the topic. I would suggest that this topic continue to be discussed so the Admins can come to a decision that all can live with.

I came to this forum to find information about how the SS was being used for pen turning. While it's obvious there are few pen turning posts here, it is one of the many facets of the Shopsmith world - they even sell a pen turning set of chisels and have a sawdust session on pen turning. Pen turning is a growing hobby. I have just started turning pens myself and am in search of more information from those using the SS to turn. I must admit, I did learn one thing regarding using Google to search a site for a desired topic. That's a great tip I had no knowledge of until this thread started.

One of my passions is routing, I think it is a great pair to have a shopsmith and to be able to mix that and the routing to do projects. I love my OPR and being able to do pin routing. I wish everyone here had one and we could exchange hints, tips and projects. So I post about it. A lot of my posts are not of interest to a lot of people but at least a few like them and we now have at least a few users. We have no special section for OPR nor do I think we need one unless it would be easier for people to skip OPR stuff. A lot of my post don't receive any responses but I keep posting them in hopes of showing what all can be done with the OPR. Having said that I would say that you need to start posting anything/everything you want about shopsmith pen making. I'll read the posts and so will others, hey you may even get me interested enough to give it a try. You build the interest and we will come (hey that has to be easier then a baseball field).

Ed

reible

I'm not to sure if everyone has caught on to how to do the google search but it is the form as:

"what i want to find" site:www.shopsmith.net

So to find something on pen turning you would go to google and type in:

pen turning site:www.shopsmith.net

Now try it by replacing the www.shopsmith.net with www.shopsmith.com

Now a big company should have little trouble finding a way to make search box that appends the site:www.shopsmith.net to a search button... well at least the big company I use to work for might have ask me to do just such a thing and expected it to be working within a few hours. (Just having a little fun here)

www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=pen+turning+site%3Awww.shopsmith.net&btnG=Google+Search

W3DRM

Ed,

I am a really new pen turner. I finished a Woodcraft class on pen turning several weeks ago so am a mere neophyte and in search of any and all pen turning information I can get my hands on. Thus, the passion on this topic. I had been told to go to the SS forum to get more information from SS users on the topic. When searching for "pen" gave me a zero found result and "pen turning" gave me essentially little more, I posted my first post on this forum.

Other pen forums have little SS based information either so I am learning on my own as I go. I will post more as I get more familiar with pen-turning and hope I can help someone else too. This is all new to me. I've done a lot of flat-work but little turning at all since back in the 50's, as a kid.

As for pens, I have four in the works at the moment that I will be giving to my kids for Christmas. They make great gifts and no two are exactly alike. I have already had requests to make some for sale. Haven't gotten that good at it yet but hope to be able to make some sales after I build some experience down the road. Will post some pictures of my creations at a later date.

The SS can literally be used for all aspects of pen turning from cutting the pen blanks, drilling them, squaring the tubes, turning the blanks, and assembling the pen itself. Non-SS users have to have individual tools and machinery to accomplish the whole process. There is a SS sawdust session that shows most of the process involved in making a pen. It's a lot of fun and you get a quick satisfaction since it only takes a couple hours (excluding glue drying times) from start to finish. Experienced pen makers can turn out a simple pen in as little as 15 minutes!