Woodpeckers MORTY - loose tenon router jig

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reible
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Re: Woodpeckers MORTY - loose tenon router jig

Post by reible »

Two things I think explain what you are seeing as issues. First it is an up-cut bit so the edge where the bit plunges will always have some distress. But you can live with that since you will be at the very least be sanding that area to flush things up and to clean up the super glue spill over. Since this is an exposed surface it might well be worth the effort to make it look nice if it is a gift. If I were doing for my own home use then I wouldn't spend excess time on it but still clean it up.

Second is the fact that he was plunging through the material, again this is likely to leave some less then wonderful results. Not only that but the plunge was done many times so each break through would have this issue. If you were to insure that it was centered then the clean up passes might get most of it but you don't have a lot of room to work with.

These edges might well be done on thicker then needed stock then cleaned up to the correct thickness after the morty work was done. I don't see any disadvantages to this approach but I haven't thought all that much about it, just sort of popped into my head..... so maybe there is some got-ya?

Still not planning to buy one but that was an interesting idea of a use. And I still think having long stock for the tenon that is designed to be used as an exposed surface is a good idea. I might buy some stock like that someday. I know it is common practice to have exposed tenons on drawer sides make with the domino but since they are not on display the stock material works fine, but they are not really ready for prime time exposed joints.

Ed
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Re: Woodpeckers MORTY - loose tenon router jig

Post by RFGuy »

Yeah, I agree the tear out is likely more of a function of the router bits Woodpeckers is selling with MORTY than with MORTY himself. I would have to study the design of the Festool Domino cutters compared to the Woodpeckers router bits to see if there is anything “special” with the Festool cutters. I just wanted to point out that the Domino mortises haven’t shown ANY tear out for me so far but I have tried it on a few wood species so far. If you look closely in the Woodpeckers video you will see significant tear out on both sides of the mortise. The Festool Domino does NOT do this on non-through mortises so far in my experience with it. For non-through mortises it really doesn’t matter since the joint won’t be visible but I just wanted to point out that MORTY may not work as well as the Domino in this regard.
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DLB
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Re: Woodpeckers MORTY - loose tenon router jig

Post by DLB »

RFGuy wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 5:05 pm Yeah, I agree the tear out is likely more of a function of the router bits Woodpeckers is selling with MORTY than with MORTY himself. I would have to study the design of the Festool Domino cutters compared to the Woodpeckers router bits to see if there is anything “special” with the Festool cutters...
After that earlier discussion, I looked at some pics of the Festool Brand Domino cutters. I think they are fairly "special" with a price tag to match. They have a more complex geometry at the cutting face, I'd call it faceted. I don't think I'd want to sharpen one. Amazon also carries Domino cutters from Amana and CMT, those look more like a typical up-cut spiral router bit adapted to the Festool chuck. But in a quick glance at the reviews I didn't see much complaining and they are somewhat less pricey. I sometimes use a router to make similar (non-through) mortises and don't see a tear-out issue. But I'm not using a plunge router and I'm going slower. And at least 99% of the time the edge of the mortise will be covered when the parts are assembled.

I'm not saying that this is the answer or that the Festool Domino won't cause tear-out at the exit of a through-cut. I can see that it could be better and I can see why it would cost more to make it this way. If Festool sold a 1/4" up-cut router bit like this I'd buy one just to try it. In the meantime I saw some interesting offerings from Whiteside.

- David
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BuckeyeDennis
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Re: Woodpeckers MORTY - loose tenon router jig

Post by BuckeyeDennis »

Up-cut spiral bits will lift wood fibers on the entry side of the hole, but they clear the sawdust very nicely. Down-cut bits will cut cleanly on the entry side, but don’t do a great job of clearing the sawdust in a blind hole. Compression bits are the best of both worlds (basically a combination up/down cut), but are more expensive, and require a certain depth of cut before they can give you both benefits. That being a downcut on the entry side, and a upcut on the exit side.

Unless you’re using a router table that is, in which case “up” and “down” are bass-ackwards. 🤔
JEFFinCLE
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Re: Woodpeckers MORTY - loose tenon router jig

Post by JEFFinCLE »

Hi there. New here and joined because I bought a couple pieces of used Shopsmith equipment this weekend. Stumbled across this thread before I wrote a "hi there" post.

That's me in the video. I can assure you, what you're looking at is fuzzy hang-ons...not tear out. The was virtually none. Look at 16:28 and you'll see the glued up ends with no tear-out. The sanding sequence that follows is a few seconds of 180 grit.
DLB
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Re: Woodpeckers MORTY - loose tenon router jig

Post by DLB »

JEFFinCLE wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:31 pm Hi there. New here and joined because I bought a couple pieces of used Shopsmith equipment this weekend. Stumbled across this thread before I wrote a "hi there" post.

That's me in the video. I can assure you, what you're looking at is fuzzy hang-ons...not tear out. The was virtually none. Look at 16:28 and you'll see the glued up ends with no tear-out. The sanding sequence that follows is a few seconds of 180 grit.
Welcome to the forum, I hope you enjoy your Shopsmith equipment. What did you buy? A question about Morty - When cutting the large size 'standard' mortises (and I'm not having much luck finding those dimensions) does the material have to be moved relative to Morty to cut the mortise? In other words, I'm presuming when we say 14mm domino we mean 14mm by XXmm, defined by some standard. Will it cut the XX dimension in one go?

- David
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Re: Woodpeckers MORTY - loose tenon router jig

Post by JEFFinCLE »

DLB wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:52 amWelcome to the forum, I hope you enjoy your Shopsmith equipment. What did you buy? A question about Morty - When cutting the large size 'standard' mortises (and I'm not having much luck finding those dimensions) does the material have to be moved relative to Morty to cut the mortise? In other words, I'm presuming when we say 14mm domino we mean 14mm by XXmm, defined by some standard. Will it cut the XX dimension in one go?

- David
The length of the mortise cut by Morty exactly matches the dimension of Festool's Domino machines. That is to say, the size of the mortise (6mm for example) plus 13mm. That makes the 6mm mortise 19mm long. The 14mm mortise is 27mm long (14+13). That is how we can use one template to cut 7 different mortises. Morty cuts all 7 sizes without repositioning the jig. It's all about the combination of template guide bushing and router bit.

I bought a first generation DC-3300 and a Pro Planer. Two different sellers and two different goals. I was searching for the DC-3300 because I always admired it and in looking for one, I stumbled on the Pro Planer. My Makita lunchbox is starting to make some weird noises like the bearings are getting ready to lay an egg, so I thought I would give this a try.

The DC-3300 is sitting between a 1950 Delta drill press and a 1954 DeWalt MBC radial arm saw. My personal shop is sort of a mid- to late- 20th century home-shop machinery museum. But I cut my teeth on a Shopsmith Mark V.
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Re: Woodpeckers MORTY - loose tenon router jig

Post by RFGuy »

JEFFinCLE wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:31 pm Hi there. New here and joined because I bought a couple pieces of used Shopsmith equipment this weekend. Stumbled across this thread before I wrote a "hi there" post.

That's me in the video. I can assure you, what you're looking at is fuzzy hang-ons...not tear out. The was virtually none. Look at 16:28 and you'll see the glued up ends with no tear-out. The sanding sequence that follows is a few seconds of 180 grit.
Jeff,

First of all, please know that I am a fan of Woodpeckers tools and own several of them, as well as have a couple in production right now that I am waiting on. Just wish more of them were compatible with Shopsmith specific equipment. I appreciate that they are designed and manufactured in the USA. By the way, I appreciate your videos and find them very informative. Maybe I am nitpicking here, but it wasn't clear to me whether they were hang-ons or actual tearout. Kind of hard to see it clearly in parts of the video due to camera focus while zooming. However, when I freeze frame and examine the mortises at about 16:22, I don't see smooth flat edges on some of the mortises. Any thoughts on these? For exposed M&T joints, I had hoped these would be a bit cleaner and tigher fitting.
MORTY_tearout.jpg
MORTY_tearout.jpg (92.08 KiB) Viewed 136 times
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
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JEFFinCLE
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Re: Woodpeckers MORTY - loose tenon router jig

Post by JEFFinCLE »

Other than the 4th from the right edge, I think they're pretty good. Particularly when you consider I was working on a schedule and in front of a camera. lol Want them perfect? Take your time.

One more thing...on my screen (and I assume yours) your zoom is about 1.5 actual size.
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Re: Woodpeckers MORTY - loose tenon router jig

Post by RFGuy »

JEFFinCLE wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:48 pm Other than the 4th from the right edge, I think they're pretty good. Particularly when you consider I was working on a schedule and in front of a camera. lol Want them perfect? Take your time.

One more thing...on my screen (and I assume yours) your zoom is about 1.5 actual size.
Jeff,

Fair enough, however there is NO zoom in that picture. Taken straight off of my computer with no zoom setting for Google Chrome where I captured it from.
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
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