New Shopsmith DC-6000 Dust Collector

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jsburger
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Re: New Shopsmith DC-6000 Dust Collector

Post by jsburger »

algale wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 4:03 pm Great work, Dusty, that is a crystal clear response! It's great that the upgrade makes an old DC3300 the equivalent of the new DC6000.

But what surprises me (and I think you allude to when you say "some of the answers are not what I had hoped for") is that if you only use one hose at a time there will be no improvement in cfm. Both the old DC3300 and the new DC6000 (or an upgraded DC3300) will move exactly 200 cfm through one hose at a time, which I suspect is the way most of us probably use the DC3300 now. It is only when you use two or more hoses that the DC6000 (or an upgraded DC3300) is superior to the old DC3300 because the DC6000 (or an upgraded DC3300) maintains the 200 cfm for up to three hoses simultaneously while an old DC3300 sees a drop off in cfm with every additional hose attached.

Fascinating.



I had canceled my order on the belief that the upgrade didn't include the fan/fan housing. Now that I know I won't get more cfm with one hose, I will probably take a pass and put the money toward something else.

Thanks, again, Dusty, for being persistent.
The CFM available at any tool with any dust collector is not only a function of the dust collectors total CFM but more importantly the size of the hose. The hose is the restricting factor.

For example, my Clear Vue Max cyclone is almost 1200 CFM. I have a 4" line to my table saw. If it is the only open line I do not get 1200 CFM at the saw because the max CFM for a 4" line is 395.

http://www.ductincorporated.com/sizing-info.html
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Re: New Shopsmith DC-6000 Dust Collector

Post by RFGuy »

Some hoses are more restrictive than others though. I switched to a 2.5" Oneida hose (same length) as the Shopsmith hoses and there was a noticeable improvement in airflow even though both have the same ID. A few months after I bought it, they stopped selling it. I think they still had a 25' length, but not the shorter one. I have been tempted to buy it and cut it to make my own hoses. I'll see if I can find the notes I took on the airflow difference to publish here...
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jsburger
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Re: New Shopsmith DC-6000 Dust Collector

Post by jsburger »

RFGuy wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 4:26 pm Some hoses are more restrictive than others though. I switched to a 2.5" Oneida hose (same length) as the Shopsmith hoses and there was a noticeable improvement in airflow even though both have the same ID. A few months after I bought it, they stopped selling it. I think they still had a 25' length, but not the shorter one. I have been tempted to buy it and cut it to make my own hoses. I'll see if I can find the notes I took on the airflow difference to publish here...
Absolutely true. The chart I linked to is for smooth metal ducting I believe. That is the best case so anything that is not smooth (flex hose) will be less than 395 CFM.
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Re: New Shopsmith DC-6000 Dust Collector

Post by dusty »

OKAY, I have been told that I am dense. Maybe she is right but someone, anyone, please explain this to me so that I can understand.

Jim McCann said, "The Turbo Fan and the Fan Housing from the DC-6000 are the same as what is in the DC-3300 Motor Upgrade".

Jim didn't say it but I have been told that the motors in both are 1 1/2" HP, 3450 rpm motors.

Then he said, "The performance of the upgraded DC-3300 is the same as the DC-6000 because the internal parts of the the DC-6000
are in this upgrade".

I read this as saying the two machines are mechanically identical.

Further on he says, The DC-3300 maximum air flow is 300 cu-ft/min. [font=][font=]Is this a DC-3300 with or without the upgrade???? Surely it can't be both and the DC-3300 began as 330cfm[/font][/font]

The DC-6000 maximum air flow is 600 cu-ft/min.

So why then is the air flow of the two not the same? What am I missing?
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jsburger
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Re: New Shopsmith DC-6000 Dust Collector

Post by jsburger »

dusty wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:28 pm OKAY, I have been told that I am dense. Maybe she is right but someone, anyone, please explain this to me so that I can understand.

Jim McCann said, "The Turbo Fan and the Fan Housing from the DC-6000 are the same as what is in the DC-3300 Motor Upgrade".

Jim didn't say it but I have been told that the motors in both are 1 1/2" HP, 3450 rpm motors.

Then he said, "The performance of the upgraded DC-3000 is the same as the DC-6000 because the internal parts of the the DC-6000
are in this upgrade".

I read this as saying the two machines are mechanically identical.

Further on he says, The DC-3000 maximum air flow is 300 cu-ft/min.

The DC-6000 maximum air flow is 600 cu-ft/min.

So why then is the air flow of the two not the same? What am I missing?
I agree it is a bit confusing. In the first statement he uses the word "upgraded" DC-3000. In the second statement he does not use the word "upgraded". So in the second statement maybe he is referring to the non upgraded DC-3000.

Also a question. You keep saying DC-3000 and not DC-3300. Was there a DC-3000 or do you mean DC-3300?
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Re: New Shopsmith DC-6000 Dust Collector

Post by dusty »

jsburger wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:49 pm
dusty wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:28 pm OKAY, I have been told that I am dense. Maybe she is right but someone, anyone, please explain this to me so that I can understand.

Jim McCann said, "The Turbo Fan and the Fan Housing from the DC-6000 are the same as what is in the DC-3300 Motor Upgrade".

Jim didn't say it but I have been told that the motors in both are 1 1/2" HP, 3450 rpm motors.

Then he said, "The performance of the upgraded DC-3000 is the same as the DC-6000 because the internal parts of the the DC-6000
are in this upgrade".

I read this as saying the two machines are mechanically identical.

Further on he says, The DC-3000 maximum air flow is 300 cu-ft/min.

The DC-6000 maximum air flow is 600 cu-ft/min.

So why then is the air flow of the two not the same? What am I missing?
I agree it is a bit confusing. In the first statement he uses the word "upgraded" DC-3000. In the second statement he does not use the word "upgraded". So in the second statement maybe he is referring to the non upgraded DC-3000.

Also a question. You keep saying DC-3000 and not DC-3300. Was there a DC-3000 or do you mean DC-3300?
I don't think Jim said DC-3000. I believe that was my typos. To be clear - read Jim's response and not my attempted quotes.
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Re: New Shopsmith DC-6000 Dust Collector

Post by jsburger »

dusty wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:52 pm
jsburger wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:49 pm
dusty wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:28 pm OKAY, I have been told that I am dense. Maybe she is right but someone, anyone, please explain this to me so that I can understand.

Jim McCann said, "The Turbo Fan and the Fan Housing from the DC-6000 are the same as what is in the DC-3300 Motor Upgrade".

Jim didn't say it but I have been told that the motors in both are 1 1/2" HP, 3450 rpm motors.

Then he said, "The performance of the upgraded DC-3000 is the same as the DC-6000 because the internal parts of the the DC-6000
are in this upgrade".

I read this as saying the two machines are mechanically identical.

Further on he says, The DC-3000 maximum air flow is 300 cu-ft/min.

The DC-6000 maximum air flow is 600 cu-ft/min.

So why then is the air flow of the two not the same? What am I missing?
I agree it is a bit confusing. In the first statement he uses the word "upgraded" DC-3000. In the second statement he does not use the word "upgraded". So in the second statement maybe he is referring to the non upgraded DC-3000.

Also a question. You keep saying DC-3000 and not DC-3300. Was there a DC-3000 or do you mean DC-3300?
I don't think Jim said DC-3000. I believe that was my typos. To be clear - read Jim's response and not my attempted quotes.
You are correct. Jim did not say DC-3000 in the PDF from SS you uploaded. Sorry for the confusion on my part.
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Re: New Shopsmith DC-6000 Dust Collector

Post by shopsmithpaul »

More confirmation about the upgrade to the DC3300 from my emails.

Hi Paul,

Please see Jim's response below.

Denise


Yes. All the air moving parts in the DC-6000 are in the DC-3300 upgrade
When this upgrade is complete the old DC-3300 performs the same as the new DC-6000


Jim McCann

Engineering/Quality/Maintenance/Customer Repair

RLFSHOP LLC dba Shopsmith
510, bandsaw, jointer, belt sander, jointmatic
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Re: New Shopsmith DC-6000 Dust Collector

Post by jsburger »

shopsmithpaul wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:20 pm More confirmation about the upgrade to the DC3300 from my emails.

Hi Paul,

Please see Jim's response below.

Denise


Yes. All the air moving parts in the DC-6000 are in the DC-3300 upgrade
When this upgrade is complete the old DC-3300 performs the same as the new DC-6000


Jim McCann

Engineering/Quality/Maintenance/Customer Repair

RLFSHOP LLC dba Shopsmith
I said in an earlier post...

"I agree it is a bit confusing. In the first statement he uses the word "upgraded" DC-3000. In the second statement he does not use the word "upgraded". So in the second statement maybe he is referring to the non upgraded DC-3000.

This post seems to confirm my assumption.

Maybe it is time to put this to bed until someone actually gets the DC-3300 upgrade and proves it wrong.

Seems there is a disconnect between engineering and the advertising department. CS seems to have been somewhat fixed. Now maybe we should take on the advertisement folks.
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Re: New Shopsmith DC-6000 Dust Collector

Post by JPG »

I thought I had already thrown rocks at them.

It appears Management is clear!
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