Bandsaw Tensioning App

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RFGuy
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Bandsaw Tensioning App

Post by RFGuy »

Anyone find this interesting? Andy Klein has developed a smartphone app that attempts to determine if a bandsaw blade is tensioned properly by using the phone mic to listen for the fundamental frequency of vibration of the blade when you pluck it. It is blade manufacturer and size dependent so he is working on adding more blades to the app. I am skeptical based on my own engineering background and watching some vids of him trying to create it on Instagram. Background noise is a big concern, as is selecting the proper FFT and peak search algorithm. Not saying this can't be done, but just wondering if it is accurate and fully developed at this point. Anyone think this app would be useful?

Link to App:
https://beacons.page/inkleind2303



P.S. Early feedback is that the app freezes on certain Android phones, so it is still early in development and potentially buggy, BUT I applaud the effort in creating this app for the woodworking community.
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jsburger
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Re: Bandsaw Tensioning App

Post by jsburger »

I have watched that video as well as this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpqoesbnTWo

I don't think he is a fly by night guy. He is respected on Utube I think. Is his app more inaccurate than the imprecise tension scale on a band saw that takes no consideration of the BS blade brand? He does say in his videos that he has found very little difference in blade brands.

Do we need it? We have existed just fine without it since the band saw was invented. Sooo... I applaud him to spend the time and money to make something better.

He bought a $300 BS tension device to do his research. How many of us want to buy that?
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reible
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Re: Bandsaw Tensioning App

Post by reible »

Some of you might remember this post:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=17378

Trying to tune the scroll saw via phone app..........

It was interesting back in 2015 but not at all now especially for bandsaws.

Ed
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garys
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Re: Bandsaw Tensioning App

Post by garys »

Another expensive and complicated way to do a simple job. The old way works perfectly if you do it like the book calls for. After all, you are tightening a blade, not tuning a violin.

The old way doesn't require a $1000 for a phone.
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dusty
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Re: Bandsaw Tensioning App

Post by dusty »

All good comments but I have resorted to using just the scale, feel and performance.

With my hearing loss (even with my hearing aids) I do not hear the blade when I pluck it. There are spots on the spectrum where I am deaf.
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RFGuy
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Re: Bandsaw Tensioning App

Post by RFGuy »

I welcome anyone who takes the initiative to create any woodworking app, so I still applaud the creation of this app. Having said that though, I don't think it is very practical and I see some challenges for it. In the video he makes the user pluck the bandsaw blade 10 times, but this is done EVERY iteration. Meaning that you pluck it 10 times and find out after that the tension is right/wrong. You stop and adjust the bandsaw tension and repeat plucking 10 times again. How fast does this process converge? My guess is you will be plucking at least 30 times before you nail the correct tension. How sore is your finger going to be after plucking a 1/2" blade 30 times? Of course, maybe you only do this once with the app and intend to somehow mark the location on the bandsaw tension knob on your bandsaw...well that is the same as the tension gauge on the Shopsmith bandsaw so what is the point of using the app, especially if you are going to only use it once? In addition, you have to pluck the bandsaw in a small timing window - like playing a videogame. This may be "fun" the first couple of times you do it, but if you use it awhile I expect it to be tedious to have to repeatedly pluck a bandsaw blade on a fairly rigid timing interval. Otherwise, you'll get a faulty reading that go around. You have to understand that he is taking 10 readings and averaging them to try to find the frequency of the fundamental node of vibration. I saw part of the 20min video when he streamed it live. I have re-watched it and paused on the section where he shows the measured frequencies being output from his app while he was debugging. I also watched some short videos on his Instagram while he was working on it and failed to get the correct frequency many times. It isn't easy to get a clean audio capture from a phone without excessive background noise. Also not easy to get a good FFT with the appropriate window to work on it and to capture the first peak (fundamental tone) above all that background noise. I am not saying it can't be done, but I saw him struggling to do it on the early vids. This is WHY he has to average it 10 times on EVERY iteration. He is using averaging as a brute force technique rather than getting the engineering right to begin with.

IF most bandsaw blades are very similar or identical in his app, then why not just use a guitar or violin tuning app or device instead? Don't get me wrong, I do think the idea of this app is good. As an engineer, I like to build things, but sometimes you have to take a step back and ask whether what you are building is useful or not. In other words, just because you can build something, should you or is it even needed? Is it better than what you are replacing? Unless he can reduce/eliminate the 10 times averaging and streamline this process, I don't think it is value added yet. You would be better off sticking with doing it without the app.

P.S. I hope my speculation is wrong, so if anyone decides to purchase this app please give us your review of it.
Last edited by RFGuy on Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:20 pm, edited 3 times in total.
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
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garys
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Re: Bandsaw Tensioning App

Post by garys »

Here's an idea. Adjust the blade tension with your iphone. Then, check it against the old mechanical gauge in the saw. It the phone got it wrong, simply readjust it right according to the mechanical gauge and throw the phone in the garbage.
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Re: Bandsaw Tensioning App

Post by edma194 »

garys wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:17 am ...throw the phone in the garbage.
Dude! If I do that how am I supposed to play solitaire when I'm waiting at the doctor's office?


I used to do it by feel, I'll do it that way again. Whatever tension cuts better is what I go with.
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dusty
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Re: Bandsaw Tensioning App

Post by dusty »

edma194 wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:43 am
garys wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:17 am ...throw the phone in the garbage.
Dude! If I do that how am I supposed to play solitaire when I'm waiting at the doctor's office?


I used to do it by feel, I'll do it that way again. Whatever tension cuts better is what I go with.
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thedovetailjoint
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Re: Bandsaw Tensioning App

Post by thedovetailjoint »

I suspect this won't work with the Shopsmith bandsaw due to its lower tension. I never had a problem with the built-in gauge on the SS BS, but the gauge on my 14" Delta bandsaw is worthless and I've been plucking the blade when tensioning it for years, though I've felt the need for a tuning app. Scott
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