Incra Flip Shop Stop & Quality Issues?

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sehast
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Re: Incra Flip Shop Stop & Quality Issues?

Post by sehast »

Incra is on par with Woodpecker when it comes to expectation of quality. No way I would accept this. You paid a premium price for a tool that should fulfill your expectations on the most minimal levels.
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jsburger
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Re: Incra Flip Shop Stop & Quality Issues?

Post by jsburger »

sehast wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:01 pm Incra is on par with Woodpecker when it comes to expectation of quality. No way I would accept this. You paid a premium price for a tool that should fulfill your expectations on the most minimal levels.
I totally agree with you. This is an unacceptable item. As far as the anodization, this is also unacceptable. I have a number of Woodpeckers tools and the red anodization is perfect. After all that is their "Brand". I don't own any Incra tools and given what you guys are seeing now I probably won't. Too bad because I always thought they were a quality company. Sad.
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dusty
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Re: Incra Flip Shop Stop & Quality Issues?

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Good Grief! Back the adjustment screw out, clean up the debris (whatever it is) and put the screw back. Go make sawdust.
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Re: Incra Flip Shop Stop & Quality Issues?

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dusty wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:29 am Good Grief! Back the adjustment screw out, clean up the debris (whatever it is) and put the screw back. Go make sawdust.
Dusty,

Yeah that is the backup plan. I'll see what Incra responds with first. If they don't stand behind their product it will be eye opening for me. For comparison I bought some 80/20 Al extrusions last year for my MFT table. One of the two long extrusions poked through the box in transit and got damaged on one end. I notified 80/20 of the damage so they would be aware, in case they needed to change their packing materials, etc. for future. It was more of a notification email that I sent them rather than a complaint. They called me and said it was unacceptable that it got damaged in transit and shipped me 2 new long extrusions to replace the 1 damaged one. When a company builds a quality product they should stand behind it 110% as 80/20 did in this case. This really impressed me and makes it more likely that I will order again from them in the future. With Incra's response thus far, I am NOT inclined to purchase from them again which is disappointing for me since I always held them in high regard based on their past reputation. Hoping they will come around and admit there is a problem with their manufacturing of this particular item.
Last edited by RFGuy on Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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dusty
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Re: Incra Flip Shop Stop & Quality Issues?

Post by dusty »

RFGuy wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:53 am
dusty wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:29 am Good Grief! Back the adjustment screw out, clean up the debris (whatever it is) and put the screw back. Go make sawdust.
Dusty,

Yeah that is the backup plan. I'll see what Incra responds with first. If they don't stand behind their product it will be eye opening for me. For comparison I bought some 80/20 Al extrusions last year for my MFT table. One of the two long extrusions poked through the box in transit and got damaged on one end. I notified 80/20 of the damage so they would be aware, in case they needed to change their packing materials, etc. for future. It was more of a notification email that I sent them rather than a complaint. They called me and said it was unacceptable that it got damaged in transit and shipped me 2 new long extrusions to replace the 1 damaged one. When a company builds a quality product they should stand behind it 110% as 80/20 did in this case. This really impressed me and makes it more likely that I will order gain from them in the future. With Incra's response thus far, I am NOT inclined to purchase from them again which is disappointing for me since I always held them in high regard based on their past reputation. Hoping they will come around and admit there is a problem with their manufacturing of this particular item.
I don't know all of the details but I feel that it is much too soon and without good reason to write them off so quickly. I have several Incra items and am satisfied with all of them. In fact, enticed by the discussions in this thread, I just placed an order with Incra.
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Re: Incra Flip Shop Stop & Quality Issues?

Post by RFGuy »

UPDATE: I did reach out to Incra again. I told them my primary concern is the quality of the thread tapping and no cleanup afterwards. I want to remind anyone reading this post that this is not some assembly part that gets tightened once and never touched again. THIS is a micro-adjust screw that will be repeatedly loosened and tightened whenever you need to fine tune the position of the flip-stop so having clean/precise threads is important here. IF it were just some assembly screw I could tolerate imperfectly cut threads and bits of metal between the extrusion and screw. However, IMHO there should be a lot more care given to tapping and clean out on this micro-adjust. Keep in mind when I first attempted to turn this screw I could hear/feel grinding due to debris sitting on top of the screw threads and also inside the extrusion. So, I told Incra this was my primary concern and that the anodizing/finish/appearance was secondary to me.

Incra indicated that what I received was "typical". The smaller parts like the flip-stop base are tumble-deburred which leaves a rougher finish. They also said there might have been short periods where these flip-stops weren't deburred in a tumbler and that those errant parts would have a smoother finish, but supposedly those parts would be more susceptible to scratches of the anodization since they weren't tumble deburred. I am not a machinist and I only know the basics of how anodization works, but I don't understand how tumble deburring prior to anodizing makes it less likely for scratches in the anodization with use. I mean is it supposed to be pre-scratching to minimize the appearance of future scratching? I just don't get it because I thought anodization would be the same surface thickness no matter whether the metal underneath is smooth or rough from tumble deburring? How does making the surface very rough help with the longevity of anodization?

Incra was kind enough to send a partial replacement. It was supposed to be the base part of the flip stop and a micro-adjust screw but they forgot the latter. Keep in mind the replacement was cherry picked to be the best one. As you can see in the pics below the new base has a much smoother appearance, but still looks to be tumble deburred. So it looks better on the surface, but when you look at a zoom in of the threads this is how they shipped it to me. I can't see how any cleaning was done to the threads after tapping. Even one blast of compressed air should have cleaned the threads out more than this. In the last picture you can see how the threads are only fully tapped to barely 0.5" but this micro-adjust screw has to insert fully to 0.75" which is why when I received the first product from them the screw threads were damaged because the screw had to finish tapping the extrusion since they didn't fully tap it. I am not planning on pushing this any farther with Incra because it seems like they just don't "get it". :( I'll buy my own fastener and re-assemble my flip-stop with this new base after properly tapping the extrusion and just use it now.

P.S. Okay, last word, I promise, I have several products from Jessem Tools. The anodization is perfect with smooth finishes, but maybe black anodized is easier than red/gold. All the tapping is perfect and no debris left behind. Fasteners haven't been damaged like the one I received from Incra, etc., etc. So, before anyone tries to defend Incra please take a look at other top brands in woodworking for comparison and I think you'll find the fit/finish on their products are on a different level than what I received from Incra.

Comparison (top is original product and bottom is replacement part):
IMG_5546.jpg
IMG_5546.jpg (41.18 KiB) Viewed 1111 times
Close-Up of Threads in replacement base:
IMG_5544.jpg
IMG_5544.jpg (49.29 KiB) Viewed 1111 times
Close-Up of Threads with ruler:
IMG_5549.jpg
IMG_5549.jpg (48.31 KiB) Viewed 1092 times
Last edited by RFGuy on Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
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BuckeyeDennis
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Re: Incra Flip Shop Stop & Quality Issues?

Post by BuckeyeDennis »

I wouldn't expect a completely uncleaned part like that even from Harbor Freight. Plus the replacement part doesn't appear to be fully threaded. It looks like the tap drifted upward into the open slot while cutting, or maybe the tap was fed in at an angle. If you need to use that part, re-tapping it may be in order. It's hard to believe that a reputable American company would consider that to be acceptable quality.
RFGuy
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Re: Incra Flip Shop Stop & Quality Issues?

Post by RFGuy »

BuckeyeDennis wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:09 am I wouldn't expect a completely uncleaned part like that even from Harbor Freight. Plus the replacement part doesn't appear to be fully threaded. It looks like the tap drifted upward into the open slot while cutting, or maybe the tap was fed in at an angle. If you need to use that part, re-tapping it may be in order. It's hard to believe that a reputable American company would consider that to be acceptable quality.
Dennis,

Thanks. I appreciate the feedback. Yeah, I thought it kind of looked like maybe the tap did drift upwards on this replacement part, but I couldn't tell for sure if it was this or just the end of the tap taper. I am wondering how well it will do to re-tap it straight if the tap did drift upwards. I mean wouldn't it just make more of a mess of the threads since it wasn't tapped parallel to the extrusion to begin with? I have seen woodworking tools from China with better fit/finish in YouTube videos than what I received from Incra. :(
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
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sehast
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Re: Incra Flip Shop Stop & Quality Issues?

Post by sehast »

Hard to imagine that the management of the company would condone something like this unless they have concluded they can't compete with the Woodpeckers and Jessems of the world and are content to be a provider of lower quality products instead. Problem is they still are demanding the same price margin. Something will have to give in the not too distant future.
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Re: Incra Flip Shop Stop & Quality Issues?

Post by RFGuy »

sehast wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:54 am Hard to imagine that the management of the company would condone something like this unless they have concluded they can't compete with the Woodpeckers and Jessems of the world and are content to be a provider of lower quality products instead. Problem is they still are demanding the same price margin. Something will have to give in the not too distant future.
Thanks Steve. Yeah, I think you probably nailed it here with your analysis. I had always heard great things about Incra products so I assumed their quality was as good as their reputation. In fact, I was hesitant to even start this thread. I like good companies, particularly those based in the US, so I didn't want to tarnish their reputation by posting my problems here. The need to get confirmation of what I was seeing was greater so I finally decided to start this thread to get feedback from the forum. Unfortunately, I think Incra is one of many companies that have had to contend with knock-off products from Chinese based companies. Sadly, I think while quality has continued to improve with these imports, some companies like Incra have had to let their quality slide to eek out profitability. I prefer to buy a tool only once (buy once, cry once) because I favor lifetime tools over buying cheaper ones & replacing them. So, I don't mind spending more $$$ on tools from Woodpeckers, Jessem, Incra, etc., but they have to bring the quality to justify it. Given this entire experience I am VERY hesitant to buy from Incra again which is unfortunate because I was also eyeing their Incra Miter Express for a possible future purchase.

Occasionally, I catch that Dutch woodworker HookedOnWood channel on YouTube. I am continually surprised at how good some of these China tools appear to be that he reviews there. The fit/finish on many of these look better than what I received from Incra. Of course they are ripping off designs from Woodpeckers and Incra, but still impressive
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
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