Incra Flip Shop Stop & Quality Issues?

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reible
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Re: Incra Flip Shop Stop & Quality Issues?

Post by reible »

Have you been talking to Mark? I have had several discussions with him about some issues with Incra and Shopsmith which all have been resolved.

Now the other thing that you have to think about is the function of that fastener. It doesn't hold things together it is simply for doing fine adjustments. I'm not excusing the workmanship issues but functionally..... I never really liked how that worked anyway. And with a shopsmith and lack of a positive blade placement, well, having to tweak things that require that much effort seems like a waste of time.

BTW it is not only one way of doing that adjustment. I normally don't do the adjustments that way, I use the bar/rods if I can.

I actually have two of these flip stops, an older model without the interlocking stops/miter bar. That was good for most things but if you needed to use the stops on angle pieces they would slide under or simply put you didn't have a positive stop. They were able to fix this issue with the newer model but again they are not perfect and I too have had issues especially in respect to shopsmith/incra products.

I have the miter express and the 1000HD (it doesn't fit the shopsmith slot so it only used on the sled). With them seemly parting ways with some shopsmith products I don't know if they still sell the miter express??? Or if they will continue to sell it?? I also have the shopsmith version of the 2000? which I no longer use much. I also have the older LS router fence system and the original incra jig and the old incra gauge . The Ibox jig, and some of their rules and who knows what else I might have setting around. So I have spent decent amount of money with them over the years.

Ed
{Knight of the Shopsmith} [Hero's don't wear capes, they wear dog tags]
RFGuy
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Re: Incra Flip Shop Stop & Quality Issues?

Post by RFGuy »

Ed,

Thanks. Appreciate the feedback. Well, I didn't want to call out anyone from Incra by name since I was making a complaint online here. You make good points about possibly doing it other ways and that may be something for me to look into on my flip-stop. Honestly, I just wanted it to work out of the box and not sit on a shelf for weeks like it has now because of this while I tried to resolve it with them. I know manufacturing isn't perfect. I guess I was hoping when I first contacted them about this issue that they would have said there was a small batch of parts with this issue but that it was resolved now. If this had been the case, I would have readily accepted and understood. Instead they continue to tell me what I have seen is "typical" but because I raised the issue they are hand picking parts to try to send to me. To me, that indicates there is a lower quality in their parts now than perhaps in the past, i.e. manufacturing is sloppier than before. They seem less concerned with addressing this quality issue in manufacturing than with simply appeasing a nitpicking customer, i.e. me.

It really is unfortunate. I mean if I compare/contrast what I see is this...Woodpeckers has great manufacturing and sometimes great ideas that they turn into products. Jessem (in my experience) has great ideas and great manufacturing, but only a narrow range of products they engage with. Incra has many great ideas and many products that they sell but seemingly mediocre manufacturing now. Wishing this wasn't the case.
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
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reible
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Re: Incra Flip Shop Stop & Quality Issues?

Post by reible »

Woodpecker is not perfect either but responsive to issues. I got one of their MFT squares but it wouldn't fit everywhere on my MFT. I contacted them and they sent me another one and I sent them the first one back to them. Tried the second one and it still didn't fit everywhere. Since I have other like items that do fit I contacted them again. We talked and they agreed to pull one and do a final inspection on it before sending it out. This one fit and the other one went back to them. Tells me they don't do 100% inspection to start with. The thing was they took the time to get me one that was right and after all that is the name of the game of customer service and keeps me coming back.

I would have no problem having small manufacturing problems so long as they fix them. Incra is not the only company that falls short on that, our own shopsmith has this same issue.

Over the years I have had a lot of product issues and most of them I ended up solving myself. Sad but true.

Ed
{Knight of the Shopsmith} [Hero's don't wear capes, they wear dog tags]
tucsonguy
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Re: Incra Flip Shop Stop & Quality Issues?

Post by tucsonguy »

I've been very happy with my Incra products overall. I have the v120 w/shopsmith track, a telescoping fence, and both old and new types of flip stops (which for some reason, work pretty much backwards from each other, why is that?
I also have the Incra Wonderfence.
I have never noticed that kind of metal flaking and stuff in the micropositioning screw area, so I definitely see it as a defect and would send it back to incra - just say you aren't happy with it.
While I've been pleased with Incra products, I know of other users who have had issues - and had to return their products. I think of Incra and Shopsmith as very similar companies - they make great niche products, they are slow in both production and shipping, and their customer service is very variable.

Their excuse (that it is normal production method) is pretty poor - any company selling a product that 'normally' leaves metal residue sticking to a screw mechanism is going to see a lot of customers return the product after the metal residue has had time to damage the threads....
Geoff Baker
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Re: Incra Flip Shop Stop & Quality Issues?

Post by RFGuy »

Thanks tucsonguy. I appreciate your feedback and insights on Incra. I have been quiet on this since I was waiting patiently for another replacement.

Third time is the charm??? :rolleyes: So, I got my 3rd sub-assembly from Incra for the Flip Shop Stop. The machining looks very good on this part and the threads were cleaned BEFORE the cap head screw was threaded in. This is exactly what I was expecting from Incra on my original purchase, not 3 deliveries later. Also note that it looks like the tap didn't wander (drift) upwards in the channel on this 3rd part like on the 1st & 2nd parts (look how deep that thread groove is in the bottom of the channel on this 3rd part). Enough said on that...

Now the color. I know this is personal preference and some of you might label me "whiney" for even bringing it up, but let's be honest. IF you purchased a new Mark V/7 expecting it to be the traditional grey and it came to your house and the headstock was pink would you accept it? I know I am exaggerating here, but hopefully you get my point. I really liked the original gold anodizing and red scheme of Incra products (as shown on pics from their website). In the pic below you can clearly see the difference between the older Incra products and the newer ones, i.e. no camera setting differences because both parts are in the same shot. I say this because I assume this 3rd part that they shipped me is probably a much older one they had sitting around. The newer manufactured parts look yellow to me, not gold, and kind of washed out. The original part has a true gold appearance that is much deeper in tone. It has an overall smoother finish whereas the new one is rough (like a casting on a brake caliper) due to the differences in tumble deburring processes between the two. Before the naysayers comment on this, keep in mind this is an expensive miter gauge package, i.e. a premium product (well over $200 total after tax & shipping). I have seen far better fit/finish on budget minded tools from Rockler or even some HF tools. There are even many China tools with better fit/finish than what I received. If you don't believe me check out a woodworker on YouTube under the channel name "Hooked On Wood" who does some excellent reviews of Chinese woodworking tools. While I am pleased to finally be able to put this one to bed, I am left saddened that this is the current state of manufacturing of many of our companies in this country today. :( I mean can we not properly tap an aluminum extrusion any more? When it comes to metalworking, I am a hack but I am 99% sure I could do better (at tapping) than these 1st two parts from Incra. ;)

IF I buy any more Incra tools, and that is a big IF, I will probably look for used ones in the future to try to get the better looking, better manufactured older ones.

Comparison (top is 2nd part and bottom is 3rd part):
IMG_5561_2.jpg
IMG_5561_2.jpg (63.74 KiB) Viewed 1052 times
Close-Up of Threads in 3rd base:
IMG_5562_2.jpg
IMG_5562_2.jpg (53.82 KiB) Viewed 1052 times
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
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JPG
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Re: Incra Flip Shop Stop & Quality Issues?

Post by JPG »

Glad thee prevailed! I agree it should not have taken three tries. Wonder if the third is 'NOS'?
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10
E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
RFGuy
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Re: Incra Flip Shop Stop & Quality Issues?

Post by RFGuy »

JPG wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 2:54 pm Glad thee prevailed! I agree it should not have taken three tries. Wonder if the third is 'NOS'?
JPG,

Thanks. I appreciate it. What is 'NOS'? I am not familiar with that one.
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
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JPG
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Re: Incra Flip Shop Stop & Quality Issues?

Post by JPG »

New Old Stock.
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╟JPG ╢
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10
E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
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dusty
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Re: Incra Flip Shop Stop & Quality Issues?

Post by dusty »

Now, the really important question. How much better does it work?
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Re: Incra Flip Shop Stop & Quality Issues?

Post by RFGuy »

dusty wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:49 am Now, the really important question. How much better does it work?
Well, I am less inclined to throw it across the room in frustration so I would say it works much better now!!! So that is an improvement.
:)


In all seriousness though, the cap head screw turns freely and smoothly in the extrusion of the Flip Shop Stop now, whereas the original one was crunching/grinding on the bits of metal shavings from the tap that weren't cleaned out.
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
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