More On Disappointed In MiterSet

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edflorence
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Re: More On Disappointed In MiterSet

Post by edflorence »

Thanks for posting the link to the manual, RFGuy..

the manual contains this sentence:

"Some miter gauges have a narrow face and may require
the addition of a sacrificial face extension to reach all
sector holes on the MiterSet jig. We include a 6”
aluminum bar for the Shopsmith version for just this
purpose. Simply place the bar against the tapered pins
and press the face of the gauge firmly against the bar. "

Apparently the Miter Set should include this extension.

Ed
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Re: More On Disappointed In MiterSet

Post by RFGuy »

edflorence wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:31 pm Thanks for posting the link to the manual, RFGuy..

the manual contains this sentence:

"Some miter gauges have a narrow face and may require
the addition of a sacrificial face extension to reach all
sector holes on the MiterSet jig. We include a 6”
aluminum bar for the Shopsmith version for just this
purpose. Simply place the bar against the tapered pins
and press the face of the gauge firmly against the bar. "


Apparently the Miter Set should include this extension.

Ed
Ed,

Agreed, but he doesn't want to use the 6" aluminum bar and he doesn't want to make a sacrificial fence. My point is he keeps saying that the Shopsmith miter gauge won't reach the 6 pin and I showed pics of mine showing the opposite. I didn't even use the aluminum bar in my pics to reach the 6 pin.
Unless the earlier Shopsmith miter gauges are a lot smaller than mine I don't understand why he has a problem. Hence we need pics from him.
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
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DLB
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Re: More On Disappointed In MiterSet

Post by DLB »

That manual posted by RFGuy says "The angles for each segment count are built into the plate and are accurate to within .001”." Really? In DMS notation, IIRC, that is .001 seconds, one second being 1/3600 of a degree. So accurate within 1/360000 degrees? I've worked on some pretty accurate equipment, but I don't think I've ever seen anything capable of measuring with resolution better than tenths of seconds. They must mean something else, but even .001 degrees seems wildly optimistic. Is there another use for the close quote symbol in measuring angles just for confusion?

- David
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Re: More On Disappointed In MiterSet

Post by RFGuy »

DLB wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:46 pm That manual posted by RFGuy says "The angles for each segment count are built into the plate and are accurate to within .001”." Really? In DMS notation, IIRC, that is .001 seconds, one second being 1/3600 of a degree. So accurate within 1/360000 degrees? I've worked on some pretty accurate equipment, but I don't think I've ever seen anything capable of measuring with resolution better than tenths of seconds. They must mean something else, but even .001 degrees seems wildly optimistic. Is there another use for the close quote symbol in measuring angles just for confusion?

- David
David,

I didn't read it that way, but I can see your point. On pages 3 and 4 they seem to be indicating to me that their hole placement (for each angle) is accurate to 0.001". In other words that is the precision of the milled holes by their CNC. I think they mis-spoke in that one sentence and they only intended to point out their CNC accuracy. It would be good to know what the intended accuracy is for the finished angle and they would have to publish it for each segment option.
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
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edflorence
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Re: More On Disappointed In MiterSet

Post by edflorence »

David...I read the " symbol as meaning inch in this context, rather than seconds.

RFGuy...as far as I know, there has never been a change in the width of the miter bars. You are right...pictures would help clarify things with this issue. By the way, I followed up on your post by finding the manual for the Standard Miter Set and it includes the following:

If you are
able to feel movement of the miter bar within the slot it
will have no bearing on the accuracy of the angle you set

The manual states that the miter bar slots are milled deliberately slightly oversize to allow for variations in miter bars. I don't understand how this could not affect the accuracy of the setting. As has been mentioned, maybe making sure that one edge of the miter bar is snugged up against one side of the slot would eliminate this, but the manual does not say you should need to do that. Interesting.

FWIW, I have one of the original, non-aluminum Miter Set Standards and have had good luck using it to set 45's on my miter gage without gapping in the finished joints. Haven't tried any multi-segment rings with it. I never noticed any slop in the miter slot before but after reading this thread I will have a closer look.

Ed
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chapmanruss
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Re: More On Disappointed In MiterSet

Post by chapmanruss »

RFGuy,

Thanks for including the Manual. I can see in your previous post's picture that the miter touches the 6 segment pin but from the angle I cannot be sure it is fully touching across the pin as suggested by cliffy.

I don't believe the width of the Shopsmith miter protractor face has changed. I compared a greenie, older gray and a newer gray and they are all the same width. It is interesting that the manual says to use the supplied bar for narrower miters but cliffy's apparently didn't have it. The Shopsmith online catalog only mentions the Detent Bar (Standard jig only) but nothing about a 6” aluminum bar for the Shopsmith version as stated in the Manual on page 7.

I checked my Miterset Standard since I only have the standard with three miters and a spare bar. 2 and the spare bar could only take a .002" feeler gauge and 1 a .003" gauge. All were checked at the same point on the Miterset and the bars at the end of the slit away from the miter protractor and handle. These were all newer type bars with the "T" track washer and varying degrees of wear/use. I did not try any older original/500 bars.
Russ

Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
Mark V 520
All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.
Has Speed Changer, 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E's S/N's 1076 & 1077 oldest ones I have restored. Mark 2 S/N 85959 restored. Others to be restored.
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Re: More On Disappointed In MiterSet

Post by RFGuy »

chapmanruss wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:24 pm RFGuy,

Thanks for including the Manual. I can see in your previous post's picture that the miter touches the 6 segment pin but from the angle I cannot be sure it is fully touching across the pin as suggested by cliffy.
Yeah, there is definitely parallax in the picture, but I can assure you that the edge of the pin (at its peak) is sitting on the edge of the miter gauge with maybe a few mm to spare for the "6" position.
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
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chapmanruss
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Re: More On Disappointed In MiterSet

Post by chapmanruss »

RFGuy,

Thanks for the clarification.
Russ

Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
Mark V 520
All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.
Has Speed Changer, 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E's S/N's 1076 & 1077 oldest ones I have restored. Mark 2 S/N 85959 restored. Others to be restored.
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Re: More On Disappointed In MiterSet

Post by RFGuy »

chapmanruss wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:37 pm RFGuy,

Thanks for the clarification.
OK. I am wrong. I went back to check it again. I had to take a picture and zoom in to see it. Apparently my eyes deceived me because in the picture you can clearly see that the centerline (top of the pin) falls just outside of the Shopsmith miter gauge for pin position "6". Also, there is no 6" aluminum bar in my MiterSet Segments case, but there is one in the MiterSet Standard, however this bar is for setting half degree angles so it sounds like there was a different flat bar that was supposed to be included in the MiterSet Segments. Mine didn't come with it though. Looks like the only real option to do what the OP wants is to use the MiterSet Segments with an extension fence on the Shopsmith miter gauge.
IMG_5550_2.jpg
IMG_5550_2.jpg (70.06 KiB) Viewed 920 times
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
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edflorence
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Re: More On Disappointed In MiterSet

Post by edflorence »

Great picture, RFGuy. It clearly shows the need for the "6”
aluminum bar for the Shopsmith version" mentioned in the manual. Sounds like maybe some of the Shopsmith versions got shipped without it.

As for the "slop", I double checked my Standard Miter Set and found that my gray miter gauge fits with no discernible movement. There is a gap that appears on one side between the bar and the slot near the upper end of the slot and this gap extends back maybe an inch and a half or so. I could barely get the tip of an .003" feeler in it. No gap on the other side of the bar, and no "wiggle" at all in the fit.

Maybe the OP has a couple of issues going on: 1) as mentioned early on in this thread, maybe he is using a MiterSet that is not the Shopsmith Version. The box for the one I have is clearly marked as being the Shopsmith version. This would explain the poor fit. 2) Missing the 6" bar. But, as noted, a flat extension bolted to the miter gauge should work.
Ed
Idaho Panhandle
Mark 5 of various vintages, Mini with reversing motor, bs, dc3300, jointer, increaser, decreaser
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