Tablesaw Power feed

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edma194
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Re: Tablesaw Power feed

Post by edma194 »

RFGuy wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:29 pm Ed,

Below is a manual just in case you need it. The RipStrate was initially made by Fisher Hill Industries then later sold to Trend-lines Woodworking Tools & Supplies. Both companies, I believe, are out of business now. From the manual it looks like the rollers are supposed to be set to provide a slight angle to push the workpiece into the fence. If so, it is similar to the Jessem product in operation. The Jessem product however won't allow the wheels to roll backwards which further helps to prevent kickback. It appears that the RipStrate is supposed to have a similar function, but I don't fully understand how it is supposed to work. In the diagram from the manual there is a U channel labeled as an anti-kickback pawl so I presume this is supposed to somehow fall in between the wheels to stop them?

By the way, it isn't so much cosmic unconciousness as it is that you searched recently on Google (or another search engine) for RipStrate and as a result you got an ad showing a RipStrate for sale. Not a coincidence. Big brother is watching...always watching. :(

RipStrate Owner's Manual.pdf
Thank you for that manual, that's fantastic! I probably would have been posting to find one before long without your help.

This was just a local Craig's List ad though, not related to my recent searches. The universe is truly a wondrous and mysterious place!
Ed from Rhode Island

Mark V 510 with PowerPro headstock, Mark V Greenie with 510 headstock, Mark V 500 in progress
Sawsmith 2000 Ultra, 10ER in progress, 10ER undetermined future
endgrainguy
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Re: Tablesaw Power feed

Post by endgrainguy »

OK, forum registration bug fixed, and I'm now a member!

The best way to get more information about my power feeder is to look at my videos:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... uZ1e7S3WYe

I'm a rank amateur video maker, but if you have the patience there's a lot of information there. If you want more, contact me through my woodworking web site, alladd.com or email or telephone me.

I fell into this project after seeing this YT video, by the guy who invented the Pantorouter :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiaduBZHRU
showing a crude one wheeled feeder cobbled together using a brushless motor drill --that actually sort of worked! It just so happened that the last time I had gone to use my baby feeder the speed module was shot and the feed rollers were starting to fall apart. And I hated setting it up --so I didn't use it often. Seeing the drill as-power-source video made me start scheming about making myself a power feeder I'd actualy use.

My prototype worked so well I refined it further, thinking I might try to sell plans for it, maybe even kits. A woodworking friend and neighbor, Tm Coleman, a College of the Redwoods alum who makes great studio furniture and writes often for Fine Woodworking Magazine, saw my prototype and liked it, and then encouraged me to show it at a wood expo at the Connecticut Valley School of Woodworking, next to a Woodcraft store. Some Fine Woodworking Magazine staff were there and loved it, and told me if I got my supply chain together to fill orders they'd review it for the magazine. Suddenly a new branch of Fine Edge Woodworking.

Delta briefly made a power feeder called the Unifeeder that fence mounted, but it was bulky and didn't really target a coherent market (they said for saws under 3HP, but it fed too fast for them). It's hard to emphasize how excellent the brushless motor drills are as an inexpensive and perfect power source for the feeder (I consider it free because anyone who would want a power feeder should own a brushless motor drill).

I understand the concerns about it being too light. But the way it mounts, like the Unifeeder, gives it a huge leverage advantage over commercial feeders, which operate out on the end of a pivoting lever arm. I think it's more likely to prevent kickback than the baby feeder.

The construction is simple, made mostly from off the shelf parts. There's no especially clever engineering in it. But I did assiduously design for parts I could obtain inexpensively in bulk, and I'm not gouging on the price. You'd have trouble piecing one together yourself for what I charge.

Anyway, I'm glad I discovered this forum, and it got me to think about Shopsmiths for the first time in about 38 years. My first shop, when I was 23, and started to try to make a living selling my woodworking, knowing essentially nothing, was a Taiwan SS clone (Masterwoodcraft!). I have fond memories of turning table lamps from diagonally laminated parquet blocks that were unbalanced. I'd flick on the switch for an instant and then simultaneously hold down the bucking machine and take a few gouge cuts, repeating until it would spin smoothly. After a few months I bought a table saw, and realized I really wasn't much of a turner.

If I ever had to downsize to a small shop I'd get another Shopsmith (the real thing this time!) in a heartbeat. In fact my experience with designing the Little Proteus gives me a far greater appreciation of the engineering and ingenuity of the Shopsmith, and every other tool that works well, as well as a new disdain for every poorly designed fastener in the shop.
bainin
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Location: NC

Re: Tablesaw Power feed

Post by bainin »

Endgrainguy - glad you made it through the SS forums gauntlet.

I'm the one who initially asked about your proteus- it came from my general thought of getting my hands away from the blade. I simply didnt know anything like that existed !

I appreciate your response and willingness to engage.

b
RFGuy
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Location: a suburb of PHX, AZ

Re: Tablesaw Power feed

Post by RFGuy »

Al (endgrainguy),

Welcome to the forum! Glad you were able to get in as a member. Are the rollers parallel to the fence in your design or is there a cant to keep the workpiece registered to the fence? Do you recommend a riving knife be used in conjunction with the Little Proteus to further minimize kickback? Many Shopsmith owners have the model 500 Mark V which only has a 1-1/4" wide fence. The newer 520 model Mark V/7 has a 2-1/2" wide fence. However in pictures of your system it is usually mounted on a Biesemeyer style fence that I assume is at least 4" wide. Can the Little Proteus be mounted on top of a 1-1/4" wide fence and if so any concerns with stability for this kind of setup in your opinion? Lastly, has anyone ever reported a kickback event using the Little Proteus or does its design completely mitigate kickback?
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
bainin
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Location: NC

Re: Tablesaw Power feed

Post by bainin »

RF Guy - Do you leave those Jessem guides attached to your fence all the time?
RFGuy
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Location: a suburb of PHX, AZ

Re: Tablesaw Power feed

Post by RFGuy »

bainin wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:08 pm RF Guy - Do you leave those Jessem guides attached to your fence all the time?
Yes. If I want them out of the way, the arms can be slid all the way to the right and the wheels turned up on top. So, there is nothing left of the fence after doing this.
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
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jsburger
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Re: Tablesaw Power feed

Post by jsburger »

I have the Jessem track attached to my Powermatic PM2000 fence. I attach the stock guides to the 520 fence with SS T nuts without the track. In both cases they don't have to be removed just as RFGuy said.
John & Mary Burger
Eagle's Lair Woodshop
Hooper, UT
DLB
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Location: Joshua Texas

Re: Tablesaw Power feed

Post by DLB »

bainin wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:08 pm RF Guy - Do you leave those Jessem guides attached to your fence all the time?
I've removed mine a couple of times and right now I can't recall why or even if it was a table saw operation (mortising hold-down, maybe). Two things I can think of that conflict are a fence straddler and anything requiring use of either top T-slot in the fence (though the Jessem T-slot is readily available). On mine it is much easier to take just the guides off than rail and all. Now I have access to a second fence for flexibility.

- David
endgrainguy
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Re: Tablesaw Power feed

Post by endgrainguy »

Welcome to the forum! Glad you were able to get in as a member. Are the rollers parallel to the fence in your design or is there a cant to keep the workpiece registered to the fence?

Thanks RF Guy, and excellent questions. My best effort at answering below...


That's easily user adjustable. The two slots are simply oversized. One aligns by the amount one wants them canted by eyeing relative to the fence. About 1/16" -1/8" cant between the wheels, or 1/4" over the length of the 13" long holder.

Do you recommend a riving knife be used in conjunction with the Little Proteus to further minimize kickback?

I have to confess to no experience with any riving knife. My saw is an old Powermatic 66. I do almost all of my solid wood ripping where I"m separating (as opposed to trimming)on a big, powerful band saw, and on the table saw I don't worry about kickback with sheet goods. But I would recommend leaving the riving knife in place whenever possible. The wheels are probably too close together to permit this without grooving the rear wheel to allow the RK to fit partly inside it. That grooving option is easily done though and can work well. Some commercial feeders come with pre-grooved wheels for that purpose. On a conventional saw it might be possible to put both feed wheels behind the RK, which can work really well in conjunction with Jessem guide/s in front, but I think the SS table is too short in back for that. For rips greater than 2 1/4" the wheels can simply fit between blade and fence. For narrower widths, it's a common practice to use an L shaped fence with the short leg the work rides against lower than the work, so much of the feed rollers can sit above the auxiliary fence. One of the best uses of the feeder on a table saw is grooves, dados and molding cuts, where RK isn't as much of an issue .

Many Shopsmith owners have the model 500 Mark V which only has a 1-1/4" wide fence. The newer 520 model Mark V/7 has a 2-1/2" wide fence. However in pictures of your system it is usually mounted on a Biesemeyer style fence that I assume is at least 4" wide. Can the Little Proteus be mounted on top of a 1-1/4" wide fence and if so any concerns with stability for this kind of setup in your opinion?

It can be mounted on a narrow fence, and the holder is designed to easily allow an outboard anti-deflection plate to run down to the table, effectively widening the fence platform. This can be left attached, or made easily (tool-lessly) removable so the holder can be used elsewhere with a shorter fence height For another machine with equal or higher fence height, the anti-deflection plate can just be left in place. See attached example on a commercial router table.
holder  anti-deflection plate
holder anti-deflection plate
20190911_004237.jpg (76.17 KiB) Viewed 248 times
Lastly, has anyone ever reported a kickback event using the Little Proteus or does its design completely mitigate kickback?

I've only been selling this in any significant numbers since the FWW review late December. About 100 units out there now --no reports of kickback have reached me. Like Jessem guides, the feeder achieves antikickback control largely through superior stock control rather than brute force. All the brushless motor drills I've tested have electronic brakes that act as anti kickback control (like the Jessem's 1-way bearing), --even if the battery runs out of power. But I don't believe the design completely mitigates kickback. So I highly recommend figuring out how to leave RK in place or replace with splitter for solid wood separating cuts. On a table saw for work one considers kickback risky, and with sheet goods, I highly recommend using with Jessem guide/s or the much less expensive Board Buddie/s.

Kickback on a table saw is a tricky subject, and I don't want to feign expertise. I see where Oliver makes a big power feeder specifically for the table saw with built in anti-kickback pawls. It has only two feed rollers, larger than most, and they're grooved so rollers can fit over the blade- over $2k delivered and 150 pounds.....
Last edited by endgrainguy on Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
RFGuy
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Location: a suburb of PHX, AZ

Re: Tablesaw Power feed

Post by RFGuy »

Al (endgrainguy),

Thanks for your thoughtful and thorough response. I don't have an immediate need for a power feeder myself. I still wonder about flex in the platform if it has to mount to the narrow Shopsmith fence, but perhaps having an outrigger on the right side of the fence that can go down to the table may alleviate this. If someone here tries the Little Proteus on a Shopsmith it would be interesting to hear their feedback. By the way the Oliver Machinery link that you posted isn't safe. My anti-malware SW flags it and indicates there is a Trojan on that website. Can you possibly remove that link from your last post and just post a picture of the Oliver Machinery Power Feeder? Or perhaps a MODERATOR can edit out the link.
That is a dangerous site to link to.
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
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