Tablesaw Power feed

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RFGuy
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Re: Tablesaw Power feed

Post by RFGuy »

edma194 wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:53 pm Cool video showing the Proteus ripping a long board on a Shopsmith with extension infeed and outfeed tables:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkE-0pTCPcQ
I got this video in my YouTube feed this morning that goes through the pricing options on this DIY power feeder. I figured I would share it here in case anyone is considering this purchase. It gives a lot more detail than you can find on the website. I am just a hobbyist woodworker and not doing production work so I don't need this. It looks reasonable if you already own a CNC and want to build it yourself, but if not the pricing is nearly the same as a Grizzly Baby Power Feeder. You have to provide some of your own hardware and lumber and a drill so factor that in when making this purchase.

📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
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tucsonguy
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Re: Tablesaw Power feed

Post by tucsonguy »

DLB wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:36 pm Wow! I have questions, is he a member here? I know his name is familiar. Really long 520 fence, 5' he says, wondering how he did that as I've always ASSUMEd that the SS version would lack some rigidity. And this version evidently only uses the front lock, or at least does not use the normal rear lock.(?) Must be kinda rigid cause that lock is way out on the infeed extension plus, of course, he's using a power feed. His infeed extensions are functionally similar but unlike the SS version, I wonder if the two (L/R) pieces are the same. Plus: "All with dust collection and HEPA filtration of the Powerpro headstock." Details! It ain't often that I think a utube video was too short or skimmed too fast through the details.

- David
Hi David, I am a member here, just don't spend as much time here as I do on the FB group. You might find a lot of useful info (HEPA filtration among others) on my youtube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp7QgD ... OmVRCbPrTw
1) The fence uses the Shopsmith Fence Extender, which they sell. It's basically just another extrusion exactly like the fence extrusion - which you can mount to the fence either vertically (for tall applications) or horizontally, I as I do in the video. The fence lock is on the front infeed accessory table. I keep it rigid by using 2 3' long bars which I precision ground (using the conical disk) to fit in the top t-slots of the fence, and made locking ends using some tnut washers and a bolt. (You are right, the SS versions lacks rigidity because they just supply you with regular tnuts, which won't keep it rigid at all.) But my bars keep the fence absolutely straight. My infeed is a homemade system using 2 acc tables, 2 aluminum bars on both sides. It is held in place by an adjustable crossbeam which mounts to the bottom of the main table leg so the entire system raises and lowers with the table! I use extension legs in the video for additional stability.

- Geoff Baker
Geoff Baker
1951 10ER w variable speed electronic motor with reverse
1999 520 w PowerPro
Belt sander - strip sander - bandsaw - scrollsaw - jointer - overarm router - undertable router mounted on main SS saw table - speed increaser - speed reducer - forced air HEPA filter for headstock - 19" SS powered aluminum drum sander - index wheel system - lathe table crossslide vise system
tucsonguy
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Re: Tablesaw Power feed

Post by tucsonguy »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkE-0pTCPcQ

This is my video demonstrating the Proteus power feed. You can see more videos on my youtube channel at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp7QgD ... OmVRCbPrTw

I am in the process of evaluating Al Ladd's "Little Proteus" power feeder. I don't want to get into a full review until I have time and other projects aren't getting in the way, but I wanted to mention a couple of things.
You will want a non-thru-cut riving knife to use the feeder properly - the taller standard knife tends to get in the way.
If you angle the Proteus, it will help keep the work against the feed, as the wheels will push it in. You may want to add featherboards to ensure there is no movement, however, unless the Proteus is locked down tight, because if it's not tight, there is the possibility of movement of the board. I noticed no fence deflection even when applying downwards pressure on the Proteus with the screw handle; the wooden frame of the Proteus allows it to twist somewhat, which in this case is probably a good thing...
The Proteus works well and certainly fed the wood through at a decent rate of speed. A LOT of that will be dependent on the tool you are using to power the Proteus. My Ridgid main battery drill gave me too high a feed rate; my big Ridgid corded drill had a nice feed rate, but it's just to big and cumbersome. The right angle tool worked GREAT but my right angle tool is a 3/8 chuck, so I had to actually turn down the output shaft on the Proteus to get it to fit (it's 1/2 inch) on my Sherline microlathe. Al Ladd says he's going to switch to a 3/8 output shaft so you will have a wider range of tools to power it with.
I think the Proteus offers some nice features (lower cost, relatively small size, fence mount, flexibility).
I think the main disadvantage for Shopsmith users will be for those who do not have some form of ripscale measurement on their fence system. I made my own; Shopsmith sells a ripscale accessory (magnetic rulers you mount on a 520); but without a ripscale, it's not easy to measure from fence to blade with the Proteus straddling the blade. In my case, I just set my rules up and align before adding the Proteus; then it's a simple matter of just using the cursor on the fence base to measure the scale on the table rail.
So far, I like it. A full review will be coming in the next few weeks, once I have time to set it up on my Shopsmith based routing system; and I want to set it up to work on my Shopsmith mounted 19" drum sander, as well.
More to come!
Geoff Baker
1951 10ER w variable speed electronic motor with reverse
1999 520 w PowerPro
Belt sander - strip sander - bandsaw - scrollsaw - jointer - overarm router - undertable router mounted on main SS saw table - speed increaser - speed reducer - forced air HEPA filter for headstock - 19" SS powered aluminum drum sander - index wheel system - lathe table crossslide vise system
endgrainguy
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Re: Tablesaw Power feed

Post by endgrainguy »

Yup, clearly there's a strong competitive product to what I'm offering. But I developed my feeder to address the Baby Feeder's shortcomings (which I was all too familiar with) for my own use, and succeeded so well that I'm offering it to others.

Here are the Little Proteus's advantages over the BF:

1)Ease of installation/removal. Literally much more like installing and removing Jessem guides or Board Buddies than like installing any other power feeder. The BF is enough of a pain to install that a product has been developed using giant Magswitches as a quick install base. Good luck with this on a Shopsmith. The Magswitch kit is about the same price as the feeder, and more expensive in itself than the LP.
2) It will fit on very small tabled machines, like a Shopsmith. Has anyone actually used a baby feeder on their Shopsmith? The LP even works well on jobsite tablesaws, where it's not needing to be plugged in is another advantage. Rip 10' boards on a jobsite without support tables or a helper....
2)Fence mount. For the table saw this is a big advantage, as the physics of the forces involved mean it doesn't deflect the fence. Also, it moves with the fence, so work of radically different widths can be fed in one installation simply by moving the fence. Conventional feeders will have a column in the way for some work. For most fences customization is required, typically just adding a t-track on top. For recent Shopsmiths, or higher end fences with integral t-slots, it just pops on like any other jig.
3) Form factor for band saw resawing comparable to dedicated band saw feeders, which are $900 and up, and won't fit on small band saws (smaller than 20-24") without major table modification. With the right drill, feed speeds appropriately slow for this task (less than 1/2 the speed of the BF).I've seen the BF used on a band saw, and tried it myself, but it's marginal at best for all but a few very specific light duty resaw tasks.

The near parity in pricing to the Baby Feeder is an amazing example of how cheap our Chinese/Taiwanese tools are, and how used to that we are. Tools like the Shopsmith, and Jessem guides (Canada), and anything European seem like luxury items in comparison.

I'm working on offering a completed unit soon, and improving my instructions and adding a few details to the kits to make it easier. I'm eager for feed back. This project has taken a bigger life of its own than I anticipated.
RFGuy
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Re: Tablesaw Power feed

Post by RFGuy »

Geoff,

Thanks. Appreciate your feedback here and looking forward to your review after you have had some time to fully test out the Little Proteus. Good feedback about setting up the width of cut and this is where a traditional swing arm power feeder has an advantage, I think. One question though, I assume for the "non-thru-cut riving knife" you meant the one that looks like a shark fin right (Shopsmith part #556223)? Wasn't this riving knife in the way of the rollers on the Little Proteus for you?

Al,

Thanks. I appreciate your feedback here and hopefully forum members will learn more from these exchanges and decide to buy your product. Personally I really have no need or desire to purchase any power feeder. I am a hobbyist and prefer to feel more connected and in control of my tools, not less, but others may need one depending on the work they do. IF I ever get around to building that wooden canoe one day and need to cut numerous identical strips then I might reconsider purchasing a power feeder. I understand there are pros and cons to any tool and your product may address some Grizzly BF deficiencies but realize you may create some new ones on your product, so customers have to decide what is best for their needs. Honestly the pricing was a bit confusing on your website so when I found the YouTube video explaining the choices, it made much more sense to me which is why I posted it here so your potential customers can better understand the options. Keep in mind that if you are at price parity with a commercial vendor then that puts you at a disadvantage IMHO. IF I built my own custom jig in the shop and I get hurt using it then that is on me. However, if I buy an add-on like this power feeder and I get hurt using it (following all manufacturer instructions) then I am going to seek compensation from the manufacturer. This is just my opinion, but if cost is equal I am going to pick the more established/larger commercial entity for the purchase should it have to come to litigation down the road. Others may not share this concern or be this prescient.
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
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JPG
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Re: Tablesaw Power feed

Post by JPG »

Prescient? Possible future litigation?

Agreed some do not share that concern. Just remove the first letter of he first word in the previous sentence for my 'opinion' of that.

Personally I consider manufacturer's instructions irrelevant. Anything I do requires my own judgement and that includes having sufficient knowledge to do so prior to any undertaking.

If I become injured I need only look into a mirror to see who is culpable.

Only far fetched possible corespondent is the safety crap that makes reading a manual such a trip down memory lane that is filled with ridiculous detail that the relevant necessary message is obscured.
╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10
E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
RFGuy
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Location: a suburb of PHX, AZ

Re: Tablesaw Power feed

Post by RFGuy »

JPG,

Yeah, I agree that one needs to know what they are doing before they use any power tool. Don't get me wrong I hate certain safety features (and warning stickers) like safety switches on push mowers, etc., but at the end of the day these features always get added because either a) someone didn't follow the instructions or b) they followed the instructions but a "freak" accident happened. I am more worried with the latter and yes I choose what products I buy based on company reputation and whether there may be a lawsuit in my future IF a freak accident happens to me. I know I am the exception. Another example is that I would never buy & use a RAS today even though I know many woodworkers have used them safely for years. Similarly some customers choose to buy a sub-compact car not thinking of the consequences should they get in a wreck with a much larger vehicle (physics matters!). Everyone has a different risk aversion algorithm running in their heads based on their own life experiences and perceptions.

P.S. Accidents do happen no matter how careful you are sometimes. Just this morning I stepped on a rusty nail while doing work in my yard (never stepped on a nail before in my entire life). Landscape rock is used a lot out here in yards to cover barren soil and the nail was impossible to see amongst it. What are the odds that it was sticking straight up and that I would step on it puncturing my shoe and foot? Off to get a tetanus shot now... :(
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
edma194
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Re: Tablesaw Power feed

Post by edma194 »

RFGuy wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:43 am Don't get me wrong I hate certain safety features (and warning stickers) like safety switches on push mowers, etc...
Sometimes I feel like they're calling me an idiot personally with that kind of stuff, but yeah, they did what they had to do.

I've been using power tools since I was a kid, and I've had a healthy fear of them all along. People aren't raised that way as much anymore. I hope the people who start using dangerous tools without such experience are paying attention to all the warnings and safety procedures.

"Nobody teaches safety as well as a shop teacher missing half his fingers."
Ed from Rhode Island

510 PowerPro Double Tilt:Greenie PowerPro Drill Press:500 Sanding Shorty w/Belt&Strip Sanders
Super Sawsmith 2000:Scroll Saw w/Stand:Joint-Matic:Power Station:Power Stand:Bandsaw:Joiner:Jigsaw
1961 Goldie:1960 Sawsmith RAS:10ER
edma194
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Re: Tablesaw Power feed

Post by edma194 »

KayBur wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:17 am Guys, I need your help! I am a co-author of the HomeMakerGuide blog. I wrote an article on table saws, but I'm not sure if I chose the best models and did a good review on them. Please see my article xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and tell me how you can improve it. I will be very glad to know your recommendations.
Those are all contractor's tablesaws and benchtop (compact) tablesaws. They are two categories of tablesaws, but there's no mention of hybrid and full size cabinet tablesaws that are the tools used in fine woodworking and cabinetry and comparable to a Shopsmith.

A number of statements describing the different types of tablesaws make no sense. A cabinet saw is not compact and has nothing to do with sawhorses. A hybrid tablesaw is a smaller version of a cabinet saw.

I suppose the comparisons between the saws mentioned are valid based on advertised features, but there is misinformation in that article.
Ed from Rhode Island

510 PowerPro Double Tilt:Greenie PowerPro Drill Press:500 Sanding Shorty w/Belt&Strip Sanders
Super Sawsmith 2000:Scroll Saw w/Stand:Joint-Matic:Power Station:Power Stand:Bandsaw:Joiner:Jigsaw
1961 Goldie:1960 Sawsmith RAS:10ER
edma194
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Re: Tablesaw Power feed

Post by edma194 »

edma194 wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:48 am They are two categories of tablesaws, but there's no mention of hybrid and full size cabinet tablesaws...
Sorry, there was mention of those types of saws in the article, they were just not included for comparison.
Ed from Rhode Island

510 PowerPro Double Tilt:Greenie PowerPro Drill Press:500 Sanding Shorty w/Belt&Strip Sanders
Super Sawsmith 2000:Scroll Saw w/Stand:Joint-Matic:Power Station:Power Stand:Bandsaw:Joiner:Jigsaw
1961 Goldie:1960 Sawsmith RAS:10ER
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