3.5HP Router or Spindle Purchase???

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roy_okc
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Re: 3.5HP Router or Spindle Purchase???

Post by roy_okc »

RFGuy wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:17 pm Does anyone have any experience with using aftermarket collets? I believe there are a few brands (Elaire, etc.) that offer ER series collets that will fit my Milwaukee router. Anyone have any experience in mating aftermarket collets with their router, or do you have any company recommendations of ER collets that I should look at?
RF Guy,

I've bought ER-like collets and nuts from precisebits.com for my CNC's porter cable 690 router and more recently my Hitachi router. I compared the two styles and they are vastly different in overall size and contact angle.

True ER college and nuts probably won't fit your Milwaukee. It looks like they do have items for it, though, https://www.precisebits.com/gateways/Co ... tsHome.htm, although I only see 1/8" collets. You might check with them to see if they have or are designing other sizes. I recommend a kit, which includes cleaner and calibration blank. Note that their items do not modify the router, so you could switch between the Milwaukee and precisebits setups.

Edited to fix auto uncorrect.
Last edited by roy_okc on Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Roy

Mark V/510, Mark V/500 with parts for 510 upgrade, bandsaw, jointer, belt sander, DC3300 w/1 micron bag
Sawstop 3HP 36" PCS w/router table insert
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JPG
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Re: 3.5HP Router or Spindle Purchase???

Post by JPG »

"Standard" ER-20 Sorta like standard Morse Taper(MT2)
https://littlemachineshop.com/products/ ... uctID=4612
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10
E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
RFGuy
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Re: 3.5HP Router or Spindle Purchase???

Post by RFGuy »

roy_okc wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:48 pm RF Guy,

I've bought ER-like collets and nuts from precisebits.com for my CNC's porter cable 690 router and more recently my Hitachi router. I compared the two styles and they are vastly different in overall size and contact angle.

True ER college and nuts probably won't fit your Milwaukee. It looks like they do have items for it, though, https://www.precisebits.com/gateways/Co ... tsHome.htm, although I only see 1/8" collets. You might check with them to see if they have or are designing other sizes. I recommend a kit, which includes cleaner and calibration blank. Note that their items do not modify the router, so you could switch between the Milwaukee and precisebits setups.

Edited to fix auto uncorrect.
Roy,

Thanks. So, I contacted precisebits and I am confused by their response. So, when you navigate to their webpage and look at Router Compatibility for the ER20 collet kit it shows that it is compatible with the Milwaukee 5625, but below is the response that I got from www.precisebits.com via e-mail. Either their website is in error or customer service doesn't know their own product. In fact they say that NONE of their ER spring collets are compatible with ANY commercially sold router! Also confusing because they state that I don't need the higher precision (lower runout) collet, but their webpage encourages the lower TIR collet for applications where the router bit is 2x or more larger than the shank size, i.e. lower runout is more desirable as the router bit cutter gets larger). I am following up with them so I will let you know what I find out.

ER20 collets are NOT compatible with your Milwaukee router. For that matter, no ER spring collets are compatible with any consumer or pro-sumer grad router.
If you are mounting in a router table, you do not need the Extreme Precision (EP) 1/8" collet kit. The PG (precision grade) will work just as well.
If you are looking for an after-market source for Milwaukee collets and do not need the precision of our spring form architecture, you may be able to use:
http://www.elairecorp.com/milwaukeeroutercollets.html
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
roy_okc
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Re: 3.5HP Router or Spindle Purchase???

Post by roy_okc »

RFGuy wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:38 pm Roy,

Thanks. So, I contacted precisebits and I am confused by their response. So, when you navigate to their webpage and look at Router Compatibility for the ER20 collet kit it shows that it is compatible with the Milwaukee 5625, but below is the response that I got from www.precisebits.com via e-mail. Either their website is in error or customer service doesn't know their own product. In fact they say that NONE of their ER spring collets are compatible with ANY commercially sold router! Also confusing because they state that I don't need the higher precision (lower runout) collet, but their webpage encourages the lower TIR collet for applications where the router bit is 2x or more larger than the shank size, i.e. lower runout is more desirable as the router bit cutter gets larger). I am following up with them so I will let you know what I find out.

ER20 collets are NOT compatible with your Milwaukee router. For that matter, no ER spring collets are compatible with any consumer or pro-sumer grad router.
If you are mounting in a router table, you do not need the Extreme Precision (EP) 1/8" collet kit. The PG (precision grade) will work just as well.
If you are looking for an after-market source for Milwaukee collets and do not need the precision of our spring form architecture, you may be able to use:
http://www.elairecorp.com/milwaukeeroutercollets.html
RF Guy,

ER20 will NOT fit your Milwaukee. ER20 (and other ER#s) are specific sizes and shapes of collets. With the exception of this new SpinRite router, I'm not aware of any wood router that uses actual ER-spec collets. Now, the CNC spindle that we discussed before did use the ER20 spec. What I tried to point to, and maybe the URL wasn't right (sorry, was doing one-fingered on a tablet), was for a custom collet(s) and nut that PreciseBits sells.

Looking again at https://www.precisebits.com/products/eq ... p&filter=1 on an actual computer, I still only see that they have 1/8" collets for the Milwaukee. Unless you only need a precision 1/8", you might be better off going with the Elaire.
Roy

Mark V/510, Mark V/500 with parts for 510 upgrade, bandsaw, jointer, belt sander, DC3300 w/1 micron bag
Sawstop 3HP 36" PCS w/router table insert
Home designed and built CNC router, another CNC router :D desktop size
CNCed G0704 milling machine
Laser engraver
Way too much other stuff and not enough space :rolleyes:
RFGuy
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Re: 3.5HP Router or Spindle Purchase???

Post by RFGuy »

roy_okc wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:18 pm RF Guy,

ER20 will NOT fit your Milwaukee. ER20 (and other ER#s) are specific sizes and shapes of collets. With the exception of this new SpinRite router, I'm not aware of any wood router that uses actual ER-spec collets. Now, the CNC spindle that we discussed before did use the ER20 spec. What I tried to point to, and maybe the URL wasn't right (sorry, was doing one-fingered on a tablet), was for a custom collet(s) and nut that PreciseBits sells.

Looking again at https://www.precisebits.com/products/eq ... p&filter=1 on an actual computer, I still only see that they have 1/8" collets for the Milwaukee. Unless you only need a precision 1/8", you might be better off going with the Elaire.
Roy,

Thanks. After getting your feedback here, I went back and checked different routers on the PreciseBits website and I get it now. Initially I thought that the collet kit only came with the 1/8" collet, but I had erroneously assumed that I could buy the 1/4" and 1/2" collets separate. In looking at the Porter Cable and other routers now I see that the collet kits come with other options besides 1/8" for them, but Milwaukee has only the 1/8" option. Their webpage is definitely a little confusing for sure. Guess I will have to stick with what I have or go with Elaire. I did find another forum where it indicated a few other Milwaukee router owners were very happy with the Elaire collets they bought.
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
RFGuy
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Re: 3.5HP Router or Spindle Purchase???

Post by RFGuy »

RFGuy wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:26 pm Roy,

Thanks. After getting your feedback here, I went back and checked different routers on the PreciseBits website and I get it now. Initially I thought that the collet kit only came with the 1/8" collet, but I had erroneously assumed that I could buy the 1/4" and 1/2" collets separate. In looking at the Porter Cable and other routers now I see that the collet kits come with other options besides 1/8" for them, but Milwaukee has only the 1/8" option. Their webpage is definitely a little confusing for sure. Guess I will have to stick with what I have or go with Elaire. I did find another forum where it indicated a few other Milwaukee router owners were very happy with the Elaire collets they bought.
Okay, I am still confused on one point. I have found online pics of the Porter Cable 7518 router and from the outside I see no difference really between it and my Milwaukee router. Unless the spindle shaft is too shallow in depth, why is it that a PC router can accept ER20 collets in sizes from 1/8" through 1/2" but my Milwaukee can only fit a 1/8" ER20 collet? Hoping to get some answers from PreciseBits, but it does seem confusing that they offer one ER20 option for the Milwaukee...
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
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JPG
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Re: 3.5HP Router or Spindle Purchase???

Post by JPG »

IIUC, ER 20 has only one size cavity that it fits and the sizes range for the 'id' only.

So I would think if ANY ER20 collet fits, ALL er20 collets will fit also.

https://littlemachineshop.com/info/er_collet_sizes.php
╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10
E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
RFGuy
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Re: 3.5HP Router or Spindle Purchase???

Post by RFGuy »

JPG wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:23 pm IIUC, ER 20 has only one size cavity that it fits and the sizes range for the 'id' only.

So I would think if ANY ER20 collet fits, ALL er20 collets will fit also.


https://littlemachineshop.com/info/er_collet_sizes.php
JPG,

Thanks. I got this back from PreciseBits below. It looks like they only made it for the Milwaukee as a test run. Not really clear to me whether it is really available if I tried to order it or not. Still trying to get clarity from them. I have been tied up with something else this morning that was an emergency so I haven't been able to call them yet. Hence I am still playing e-mail ping-pong with them. I guess their main business is focused on routers used in CNC systems and not for router tables. Apparently the Milwaukee router is seldom used in the low cost CNC's.

The point I should have made is that "ER" denotes a specific collet and nut architecture that, for no good reason, no consumer router employs. That is why we had to design and manufacture our own collets for specific routers (the routers used on the majority of low cost CNC systems). We only made the 1/8" collet for the Milwaukee 5600 family as a market test because it is rarely used on CNC systems.
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
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JPG
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Re: 3.5HP Router or Spindle Purchase???

Post by JPG »

Bottom line is: What shape is the cavity in the Milwaukee router? If od and length and taper = ER20 then. . . .
╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10
E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
RFGuy
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Re: 3.5HP Router or Spindle Purchase???

Post by RFGuy »

JPG wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:39 pm Bottom line is: What shape is the cavity in the Milwaukee router? If od and length and taper = ER20 then. . . .
Agreed. That is why I am confused when he says that they "only made the 1/8" collet for the Milwaukee 5600 family as a market test because it is rarely used on CNC systems". IF they have an ER20 collet for 1/8" bits, then I had assumed I could buy this and add their 1/4" and 1/2" collets to it. In other words if they have an 1/8" ER20 collet AND an ER collet nut that fits Milwaukee then then 1/4" and 1/2" ER20 collets should fit too. However, it sounds like maybe they haven't made this a production version for the Milwaukee since it was a market experiment. If the spindle thread, ID and spindle depth match an ER20 collet in their catalog then it should work.
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
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