3.5HP Router or Spindle Purchase???

[roy_okc]

And another video of a guy test running a spindle on his bench, no 12V required. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYvKI7fF4yQ

[roy_okc]

Roy,

1. With the spindle mounted upside down in a router table, is there any issue with sawdust that might fall down into it? I mean the spindle normally mounts with the collet facing down in a CNC so I don't know if there are any bearing or motor issues with it being rotated 180°.

2. I just need to make sure that the spindle housing is strong enough to not be damaged when clamped in the MAST-R-LIFT™ II. I know routers have a thick outer wall for this, but maybe not all spindles do?

Bottomline for me is this is already a big investment. I am reusing an Incra LS Positioner Super System for this router table, but I also bought the Incra CleanSweep Dust Collection Cabinet. Also, I bought the Jessem MAST-R-LIFT™ II. With all of this and the cabinet (plywood = $$$ right now) that I am building it has proven to be quite an expensive endeavor, but it will be my dream router station in my shop. IF I can get better performance with a spindle, even if it costs a bit more than the Milwaukee 5625-20, then it makes sense. I want the router/spindle to be a high enough quality & highest performance so that it is on par with the quality of everything else in my router system, i.e. so I don't have to spend to replace a router in a few years.

1. There is a picture of an air-cooled spindle torn down at this link: https://www.cnczone.com/forums/spindles ... posts.html. The air flows through the channels along the outer and inner case walls. Like this guy, I burned up my first spindle and recall it being similarly designed (I bought the CNC used, was a while before I got the 240V ran, don't know if it was something I did with the VFD or if something bounced around while driving back from Nebraska to Oklahoma; the replacement water cooled spindle had no problems connecting to the same VFD). An alternative would be to go with water cooled that is completely sealed up. For my CNC, I have a Homer bucket with 2-3 gallons in it and a cheap 12V submersible pump and it works great.

2. Same link as above... I wouldn't think it would bend under normal pressure, but???

Yeah, I hear you on wanting excellent quality, same here. I have a complete TS-LS setup that I got for a song that I intend to mount and use via some combination of mechanical connection and MagSwitches. The SawStop parts were pricey, tho, but I'm so glad to have a solid cast iron tabletop.

I've thought briefly about building an automated lift. That might eventually be a fallback option.

I just measured my enclosure (SawStop's) and it is about 15" tall. My 800W spindle from the tip of a medium length bit presently in it to where the cable might conceivably begin to bend is about 15". The 2.2KW looks to be another 2+" longer. Guess I'd have to build a different enclosure or modify this one some how.

Of course, I may realize that I don't need a large router in the table as I should have my larger CNC back up and running in the coming months and I'll have a good sized spindle on it not long after. The small sized routers may be enough. Time will tell.

[RFGuy]

Roy,

Thanks. Yeah, I think a water cooled spindle would be a good option. Totally sealed up from dust and much quieter. I reached out to Jessem on e-mail to try to find out if I can get more technical info on the MAST-R-LIFT™ II and whether an 80mm OD spindle could be mounted in it. I will probably have to call them though, because the last time I tried contacting them for support on e-mail they never answered unfortunately. I will post back on this thread any new info I can find out from them. I will have to double-check on the height of my Incra dust cabinet...I think it is only 15" deep inside, so a 2.2kW spindle may be too tall for me as well. A cast iron table would be really nice...guess I never thought about how to mount an LS positioner to a it. Mine will be a lot easier in that regard. The work top will be MFT style with 20mm dog holes spaced at 96mm spacing so I plan on making a removable mount for the LS positioner that uses these dog holes. I may even try out those locking bench dogs that reible has highlighted before on the forum. Assuming I can find a spindle that works, I need to also research VFD's for it. I want to have one that has a variable carrier frequency. I have seen/heard VFD's that can be quite noisy because they use a 2kHz carrier frequency and end up with audio frequency harmonics that you have to contend with. With an adjustable carrier frequency you can shift those harmonics so that they are not noticeable, or less noticeable.

[cham-ed]

At what point does a shaper make sense? The price of large routers, big tables and fences easily get into the shaper price range. A shaper will run all day and an induction motor is much quieter. Plus a big cast iron table.
Just a devil's advocate question.

[RFGuy]

At what point does a shaper make sense? The price of large routers, big tables and fences easily get into the shaper price range. A shaper will run all day and an induction motor is much quieter. Plus a big cast iron table.
Just a devil's advocate question.

Thanks. Good question. What started this off was I received some tools from my father-in-law who passed away last year. In addition to the Incra LS Positioner Super System, I also received a Leigh FMT-PRO and Leigh Super Jig 18 + VRS (tools were free but shipping was expensive). I have always wanted a standalone router table with an indexed positioner to replace my Shopsmith Mark V mounted router table. This new router table setup will have the Incra LS Positioner and the Jessem lift, but I have plans to mount the two Leigh tools on the other end of this router table (in front of Incra LS rail). They will be removable, if needed to facilitate the full 25" travel of the LS Positioner. So, this will be a multi-purpose router table setup where I do just about any kind of joinery or routing imaginable. At this point, I have all of the components except the spindle/router. I know a router is the cheaper solution, but I have already invested so much into this, I am just contemplating if a spindle would be a better option. I already have a medium size router to use for handheld use on the Leigh jigs, but wanted something bigger and permanently mounted in the Jessem lift. I would love to have a shaper, but I already have most of the gear for this setup described here and it fits in my small shop (200 sq. ft.) by replacing an existing cabinet workbench. I can also remove the LS positioner and the Leigh jigs, if needed to have another assembly/MFT table for a project. In short, this will be a full custom setup to try to use all of this equipment in a fairly small footprint in my small shop...by doing so I am reusing inherited equipment for sentimental reasons. I think this will give me the best overall solution to put this new (to me) equipment to work, but until I finish and try it out I won't know for sure. If you see anything wrong with my proposal above, let me know. I appreciate it.

[sehast]

I have had the Milwaukee router in my table for several years now and it is the best router I have owned. I also have a water cooled spindle in my CNC but I think that is over kill for a table router. The Milwaukee has plenty of power and is quite for a standard router when run at 18000 RPM which is usually where have it. Mine has been going for 5 years and the brushes seem fine. It takes plenty of abuse and never complains unlike some fancy spindles.

[RFGuy]

I have had the Milwaukee router in my table for several years now and it is the best router I have owned. I also have a water cooled spindle in my CNC but I think that is over kill for a table router. The Milwaukee has plenty of power and is quite for a standard router when run at 18000 RPM which is usually where have it. Mine has been going for 5 years and the brushes seem fine. It takes plenty of abuse and never complains unlike some fancy spindles.

Thanks Steve. Your endorsement of the Milwaukee means a lot. Other than the few negative reviews from production shops, the rest of the online reviews are stellar for this router. It really seems like the go-to router on the market for when you need a beefy table mounted one. I am researching spindles a bit, but I am really not sure that I can make the Jessem lift work with them. Noise isn't my main concern, but I do like quieter tools when given the option. I do have a cabinet that I can soundproof and the Incra dust cabinet around the router so it shouldn't be that bad. IF I go the router option I think it will definitely be the Milwaukee 5625-20.

[RFGuy]

Well, Jessem wasn't much help. Below is the response that I got from Jessem. They seem to think that spindle motors will be less powerful than a router motor. Nevertheless they have no clue how to secure one in the Jessem MAST-R-LIFT™ II. I didn't realize how limited the choices were for these lifts, i.e. that they are designed to hold very specific geometries from a few routers on the market. The last thing I would want is to have a spindle motor coming loose particularly while in operation. I may have no choice but to go with a router.

From Jessem:
Thank you for your email. I took your inquiry to our production team. It was determined that a spindle motor may not have as much power as a router motor. And, if it did, we do not have specifics about how you would/could mount it in the lift.

[RFGuy]

I have had the Milwaukee router in my table for several years now and it is the best router I have owned. I also have a water cooled spindle in my CNC but I think that is over kill for a table router. The Milwaukee has plenty of power and is quite for a standard router when run at 18000 RPM which is usually where have it. Mine has been going for 5 years and the brushes seem fine. It takes plenty of abuse and never complains unlike some fancy spindles.

Steve,

Just curious...what kind of speed control do you use with it? Wondering if you use the router's speed control to set it at 18,000 RPM or if you use an external controller. Since mine will be inside of a dust cabinet inside of another cabinet, I was planning on leaving the router set to full throttle and using an external speed control to make it easier to adjust. I have seen a few Milwaukee owners who hacked into the variable speed control to wire in an external pot to make speed control easier inside of a cabinet with the onboard tach of the router. Jessem used to purchase this router and sell it is a spindle for router tables with a Milwaukee external remote mounted speed control, but unfortunately after Jessem stopped selling this, I heard that Milwaukee stopped selling bare parts for this so you can't easily assemble one without designing it.

[roy_okc]

Well, Jessem wasn't much help. Below is the response that I got from Jessem. They seem to think that spindle motors will be less powerful than a router motor. Nevertheless they have no clue how to secure one in the Jessem MAST-R-LIFT™ II. I didn't realize how limited the choices were for these lifts, i.e. that they are designed to hold very specific geometries from a few routers on the market. The last thing I would want is to have a spindle motor coming loose particularly while in operation. I may have no choice but to go with a router.

From Jessem:
Thank you for your email. I took your inquiry to our production team. It was determined that a spindle motor may not have as much power as a router motor. And, if it did, we do not have specifics about how you would/could mount it in the lift.

RF Guy,

Thanks for passing along the info you got.

Wow, incredible response from Jess Em! The guy at Incra mentioned that he was trying to push for support for spindles, but of course Jess Em makes them and it sounds like they don't care.