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SS Dust Collector - Opinions?

john

I am considering purchasing a dust collector and wonder what the opinions are on the ShopSmith unit. As with most SS machines it seems pricey compared to other brands, ( especially here in the cold north), but would like to know if there are qualities that make it a preferred product.

Any comments would be appreciated.

Thanks

john

dusty

It works as a dust collector and as a vacuum. When using it as a vacuum (for the floor and work benchtops) I insert a screening cloth in the line so that I don't get nails, small screws, the like in the vacuum.

I'm prepared to rant about my SS but the dust collector is just so-so, IMO.

charlese

John - Just got an E-mail from SS saying Dust collectors are now on sale for $100 off. The way I think - that's too good of a deal to pass up. Don't have any experiance with any of the other brands. I've read the reviews and like all reviews they appear good, but I'm happy with my 3300. It gets about 80% of dust from the saw and better than that with the jointer, belt sander and bandsaw. Also I'm not set up so I can use 4" hoses.

Yeah, I just broke a fan blade and now am temporarily out of business. (The hose was just laying on the floor when I inadvertently stepped on the remote switch and turned on the 3300 - the offending piece of wood must have been laying right next to the hose end.

Using a shop vac works but is a poor substitute for the 3300. I have vacuumed up many small pieces of wood when cleaning up the floor with the 3300. Have not had any trouble for ten years with the same machine. Guess the small piece I got today was the proverbeal straw that broke the fan. It's size is 1/2 by 1/2 by 1 inch. Heard it shoot through the hose but couldn't react fast enough to pull the hose.

I've really been happy with my 3300. The floor attachment won't pick up larger pieces if it is kept down on the floor. There is a brush in the back of that attachment that if one vacuums backward, (pull it towards you) it sweeps the larger pieces away form the suction.

One of the best things I did for the 3300 was to buy a larger hood. I got the medium sized one as it fits in my shop better than the large one would. With the larger hood (filter area) proficiency is noticeably increased. One job I don't like is cleaning out the 3300. The only really distastefull part is cleaning the inside of the hood. (This had to be done more often with the smaller (stock) hood). I turn it inside out and brush it fairly clean with an old paint brush. I used to try to beat it like a rug, but found the dust doesn't always blow away from my face. A clean hood is best for more air movement and dust collection. The larger hood has more surface area and stays cleaner longer,

charlese

reible

I was just out searching to see if anyone had ever reviewed the shopsmith dust collector against any other system. I gave up after a while...... so has anyone seen such a review??

The next question is... are any of you using a seperator between the tool and collector? On my non-shopsmith system I have this lid that sits on a 30 gal trash can... The lid has one line to the collector and the other to the tool or duct system and gets all the big parts to drop out and most of the chips as well. It is a poor mans two stage system. You can see what they look like at:

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=1515&filter=27351

Ed

charlese

Saw such a review of dust collectors in one of the woodworking mags recently. SS 3300 was not included. Those reviewed had CFM ratings of more than SS. The article, as I remember, said that 800 CFM or so was the minimum that would work. Personally, I can't agree, as the SS works for me.

THANKS FOR YOUR LAST POST! It reminded me that I should get one of those seperators from Rockler. Think it will save fan blades! Better late than never though! Think I will order the smaller seperator that fits a 5 gallon bucket. THANKS AGAIN!

john

Chuck:

Thanks for the info and tip on the price. Unfortunately we don't always get the same sales here in Canada and the current list price is $624 Cdn$. I will contact the distributor to see what he will offer.

Ed;

If I recall, Wood Magazine did a review which included ShopSmith many years ago and before I was really interested. I have been thinking of going through my early issues to see if I still have it but also prefer to get some hands-on user comments.

One of the things I like about it in the pictures is it's big wheels and small footprint. In my small shop that is a plus.

Thanks again

John

chiroindixon

The only really distasteful part is cleaning the inside of the hood. .Charlese....

I too did that dusty task until at a Traveling Academy, it was stressed to not clean that hood throughly. Apparently the hood needs a good cake to build up inside to ensure that the filter works well. I believe it was Doug Reid who was the instructor.

Now when I empty the dust collector, I just massage/shake the larger chunks down before detaching bag. BTW...having the bag sit in a 20 gallon Rubbermaid tub make the job easier. It all drops straight down and gives me handles to cart the bag out. Too many times I've managed to poke a hole....

He also surprised me with insistence that leaving all three intakes open increased the air flow and hence vacuum. He demoed it several times and it apparently works.

I will agree that the larger hood does work better. So much so, I don't see why at least the medium size is standard equipment. I've looked at the purchase of the biggest hood since the micron rating drops from 5 down to 1.

In my small shop, dust control is a real issue. Not just for neatness, but for my lungs. I've found several species of wood, to include pine, that can leave me coughing. Yeah, I could wear a good mask, but running the 3300 with all gates open works and I have a air filter mounted in ceiling for big belt sanding days.

Just was given a box of vacuum hoses and waste gates. Now redoing the vacuum system. The idea of a having a secondary in line bucket to drop out the larger pieces is a great idea. I've heard a number of chunks bang loudly through the fan, but so far no damage. That five gallon bucket adapter may be the ideal ticket.

Doc

charlese

Doc - I Appreciated you comments.:D I find it interesting about your schooling to leave all three openings open. I have found (I think I have observed) with all three intake holes opened, the removing of sawdust from the saw blade is essentially the same as with two of them shut. Plus any ambiant dust gets picked up. In that sense, the DC works better. Yes, I believe air movement is the Key (as SS says). However I have also found that when using the floor vacuum system, it is better to close off the other two intakes - it yields a cleaner floor!

As for the hood and that nasty job- Your idea of putting the hood in a can is a good idea. I wonder what is meant by a cake layer of dust. I've noticed that when a dirty hood (I'm talking about the smaller hood) is cleaned of the thick cake - the air movement is decidedly improved. In fact many times, I have removed the small hood - pulled out the metal strap - turned it inside out and beat it like a rug. Boy!! That effort really improved my dust collection on all operations.

Cake or no cake - That is the question! (Apologies to William S.);)

My new and "improved?" method of cleaning. That is; paint brush sweeping of the dust from the inside of the hood is kind of a trade off between cake or no cake.

My guess is the cake cuts down on micro particles of dust escaping the hood. It is given - Air pressure inside the hood is pressing against the fabric. I can reason a cake will cut down on the openings in the hood fabric therefore cutting down on escaping micro dust particles. However this cake also will increase the pressure in the hood thereby cutting down on air movement. (Still reasoning!) Guess it is all a trade off. The larger hoods offer a much greater surface area upon which to dispell that same pressure, therefore much less PSI - yielding better air flow.

I remember reading in one of the SS notes that I could wash the hood in a washing machine. Never have, because didn't want to get the rath of wife. Guess I could have washed it in the laundry tub in my shop - but I'm just too lazy. Also didn't want to wait for the fabric to dry.

The book PTWFE has a section on cleaning the hood. (Page 314 in version 4) They say, every 8-10 hrs. vacuum the outside of the hood. I've never done that. Have you? I wonder if that operation will help make that cake of dust.

dusty

Whatever is right, whatever works best I'm NOT doing it. I am about to purchase a larger hood and new hoses and while it is open I'll inspect the blade.

If any of you learn anything definitive, let me know. My wife will appreciate anything that helps keep the dust down.

charlese

Dusty - What is it you aren't doing?

Anyway wanted to say you don't have to open up the dusty parts of the machine (no pun intended) to inspect the fan blades. If there is a broken or chipped fan blade the machine will vibrate. You can inspect the blades by removing the tin-like SS emblem from the intake. Then remove the intake manifold. (4 phillips screws). Then with the machine un-plugged reach your hand in the hole and feel the fan blades with your fingers.

dusty

My dust collector is not be working as well as it sounds like several of those referenced on the forum. I suspect that I either have a bad fan blade or a restricted air flow path. I seem to collect a lot more dust on and around the shopsmith no matter what I am doing ie sawing, sanding, whatever.

I have a section of new hose so I can eliminate that in a hurry. The dust collector doesn't vibrate abnormally but it sure seems to make a lot more noise than I remember. (Recall, I had an extended time where I wasn't in the shop at all. My memory could well be failing me.)

I recently took the hood off and emptied it, put on a clean bag and vacuumed out the dust collector itself but I didn't check up inside.

_______________________________

Making Sawdust Safely and Profusely

charlese

Since you have a clean hood - try this - straighten out your hoses so you can see through them. You may need to clean out something that is stuck. More noise, without vibration means to me - there is a restriction somewhere. Could be in the hood, could be in the hoses, sould be (unlikely) in the inside chute portion of the fan housing.

My DC seems that it is louder when it is getting full and the hood is well caked and ugly inside. Hope you solve your extra noise problem soon!

a1gutterman

Ed and others;

Grizzly offers the same items for a whole .04 less:rolleyes: . Oh, and it looks like they are made in the USA. http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2007/Main/171

charlese

Got a tip to end holes in the lower part of the bag - Used some of that foamy filler called "Great Stuff" and covered the bolts that protude into the area of the bag. Just squirt a small amount if you've never used the stuff before - as the "GS" expands 2X. Looks a little ugly, but you can trim it off with a knife to make the "Great Stuff" foam covers a little less ugly. Anyway they don't show when the bag is on. Havent had a hole in a bag since applying the stuff.

In one of the posts I noticed that an instructor in one of the SS classes recommended leaving any un-used intakes open. - - The following is from the PTWFE - Fourth Edition - page 310: "Push plug caps onto the inlet plugs. Then place an inlet plug assembly in any inlet not being used. These plugs help to muffle noise and slightly increase the suction power. If you desire, you can leave inlets open to help filter dust from the air"

That corresponds to my observations stated in a previous post. Also, it's gotta be said that the big pieces of dust - that immediately fall to the floor are not the ones that are dangerous to your health. It is the smaller stuff that floats around that'l get you. Especially the particles so small - you can't see them.

I'm going to dig out the article refered to earlier and put some of that info in this thread. It will probably be a few days.

Bruce

Even with the DC, you should be wearing a dust mask. Use an ambient air cleaner to clean the really small stuff out of the air. That being said, I still don't have an ambient air cleaner myself. :( You can make one with a box fan and a furnace filter, but of course it's not going to work as well as a commercially made unit.

charlese

Found the article sooner than anticipated. Whoops! My memory is sometimes not the best reference for reporting. I should look up the article prior to commentating and will try to do so in the future.

LOOKS LIKE YOUR FAN AND FURNACE FILTER IS A PRETTY GOOD SYSTEM!

The article I was thinking about compares Ambient Air ScrubbersSince that is somewhat related to the subject - here's the conclusions:

The best filter machine in this test was the JDS 750-ER (jdstools.com) The price of this unit is $300. If I can copy Part of the conclusion of the article - "On a shoestring budget? Our $20 box fan with a furnace filter taped over it tested as well in airflow and dust settling as systems priced 10 times more..."

The article on Air Scrubbers is in the Wood Magazine - Issue #172 - October 2006. In the article they tested 10 air scrubbers all celing mounted and electrically powered. The test was to put 8 pie pans in various locations around a 14' X 18' X 8.5' shop and cut 160 ft of MDF. The shop was then closed up and the scrubbers were run for 1 hour afterwards. Then the pie plates were weighed to measure the amount of dust settling into the plates.

Air flow ranged from 232 CFM for the box fan to 650 CFM for the Jet AFS-1000B

It was interesting to note that the higher the CFM of the scrubber - the more dust settled into the pans. The authors reasoned/concluded that high airflow (more than needed for the shop size) "carried heavier particles out to the perimiter of the shop before they slowed enough to fall."

The JDS unit didn't have this problem because it has a wider exhaust thereby decreasing exhaust air speed.

The article did remind us that it is the smaller particles - between .03 and 5.0 microns are the ones we want to stop and not inhale. Particles smaller than .03 microns behave like a gas and we can normally breathe them in and out with no problems. We need a microscope to see a 1.0 sized dust particle. That makes dust .03 to 1.0 pretty dangerous as we can't see them.

charlese

Found this article sooner than anticipated. Woops! In my mind it seems that I have combined two articles on dust removal. One on removing dust from ambient air and the other - collecting dust from woodorking machines. Just haven't found the other yet.

LOOKS LIKE YOUR FAN AND FURNACE FILTER IS A PRETTY GOOD SYSTEM!

This article compares Ambient Air Scrubbers. Since that is related to the subject - here's the conclusions from the article:

The best filter machine in this test was the JDS 750-ER (jdstools.com) The price of this unit is $300. If I can copy Part of the conclusion of the article - "On a shoestring budget? Our $20 box fan with a furnace filter taped over it tested as well in airflow and dust settling as systems priced 10 times more..."

The article on Air Scrubbers is in the Wood Magazine - Issue #172 - October 2006. In the article they tested 10 air scrubbers all celing mounted and electrically powered. The test was to put 8 pie pans in various locations around a 14' X 18' X 8.5' shop and cut 160 ft of MDF. The shop was then closed up and the scrubbers were run for 1 hour afterwards. Then the pie plates were weighed to measure the amount of dust settling into the plates.

Air flow of the scrubbers ranged from 232 CFM for the box fan - to 650 CFM for the Jet AFS-1000B

It was interesting to note that the higher the CFM of the scrubber - the more dust settled into the pans. The authors reasoned/concluded that high airflow (more than needed for the shop size) through the exhaust "carried heavier particles out to the perimiter of the shop before they slowed enough to fall."

The JDS unit didn't have this problem because it has a wider exhaust thereby decreasing exhaust air speed.

In other words (mine); When considering air scrubbers, more CFM is not necessarily a good thing. Much depends on how fast the air comes from the exhaust (how much "wind" is created to blow unfiltered dust around). The JDS unit has the 3rd highest CFM at 636, but stilled scored best because of it's diffused exhaust. So a wide spread, slow exhaust is something to look for on an air scrubber.

The article did remind us that it is the smaller particles - between .03 and 5.0 microns are the ones we want to stop and not inhale. Particles smaller than .03 microns behave like a gas and we can normally breathe them in and out with no problems. We need a microscope to see a 1.0 sized dust particle. That makes dust .03 to 1.0 pretty dangerous as we can't see them.

8iowa

My wife gave me a DC 3300 for Christmas just after the product was introduced. That must be the better part of 20 years ago. She had an alternate motive in that her laundry area also shared garage space. This machine is still running like a charm. I started to replace the fan, thaikin that it must be worn out by now - but after partial dissembly I could not detect the slightest wear in the original fan. Will a Jet and some of the other units on the market perform as well over the years? If you need a replacement fan or parts for a Jet in 15 years will they still be available?

Most of the dust collectors at Woodcraft and other places are designed for permanent installations where the dust collector is at the termination of a hard piped metal or plastic ducted system. This could mean that the machine could be 15 or 20 feet away from the dust collector. the cfm loss in these kind of distances is significant, thus these dust collectors have 1 1/2 HP or larger motors. This gets us into another problem regarding adequate electrical capability. At a minimum, a 1 1/2 HP dust collector would have to be on it's own 20 amp circuit. This would be the way to go if you are setting up a 1000 to 2000 sq ft shop with a 60 to 100 amp sub panel.

The Shopsmith is competitive with some of the 1 HP dust collectors. Woodcraft has a Jet model 650 that is $300 and is portable. It advertises 650 cfm. However this is with a 4" opening. Once you put a 2 1/2 inch adapter and hose on it the cfm will drop drastically.

The Shopsmith, with it's 2 1/2 inch openings is rated at 330 cfm. I'm assuming that this is it's rating with one hose section. Various cmf requirements are listed in Taunton Press's "Small Woodworking Shops" section 4, page 107. They are as follows;

10 inch tablesaw ........350

6 or 8inch joiner..........300 - 450

12 inch planer.............350

Drill Press...................350

14 or 16 inch bandsaw..350

Radial Arm Saw............350 - 500

12 inch disc sander.......350

12-24 inch drum sander..300 -500

Oscillating spindle sander 350

Floor sweep..................350

So it would seem that the DC 3300 is adequate for most of our machines if we use just one length of 8' hose.

With the DC 3300 we do have slightly more suction if we close off the other two openings. Maximum cfm however will occur with all three ports open, no hose attached. This would probably even significantly exceed 330 cfm and would tax the motor to it's fullest load, perhaps even overload the motor.

Hope this helps.

charlese

I certainly agree with your assessment of the durability of the 3300. Nice machine! However, noticed you are a little high on the CFM of the 3300 - reference page 310 of PTWFE. Anyway you ask a very good question relating to the longevity of other dust collectors and support systems..

I fully support your idea that the 3300 is compatible with higher HP collectors. During the time my SS was shut down (waiting for a fan) I used a 8 gallon "Shop Vac" with a motor rated at 2.5 HP. This "Shop Vac" had an opening that is 2.5" and readily accepted my SS portable hoses. I even used only 4' of hose with the Shop Vac. What a joke for use as a shop dust collector. After the 3300 was running again - had to clean the whole shop (and the Shop Vac).

Had another thought about those that may be having some trouble with their 3300. Are they using a flexible hose that has sharp bends as it lays on the floor? I have even had loops in my hose and noticed a difference after disconnecting and laying the hose straighter.