Jan 31, 2008 UL Safety Guidelines

[paulmcohen]

It seems that as of Jan 31, 2008 UL laboratories has issues new safety guidelines requiring a riving knife for we table saw designs in order to get UL approval. I assume the Shopsmith is exempt because it was designed prior to this date. I don't know what happens if there is any kind of design change. But starting in 2014 all saws sold in the US (with a UL approved label) must have this feature, I know this is way off but has anyone thought about this?

Will we be seeing an upgrade kit:rolleyes:

[solicitr]

1) This applies to new designs, not existing ones.

2) the SS already has a riving knife! A riving knife is nothing but a splitter which is fixed relative to the blade, not the table, so that it maintains its alignment regardless of elevation or tilt. That's just how the SS guard is designed (the only other saw I know of available in the US with a riving knife is the Ryobi BT3K series).

What is REALLY needed is a requirement (as in Europe) for a riving knife which rides below the blade top, so it doesn't have to be removed for dadoes, rabbets, tenons etc. I would guess well over half of home table saws in the US have the guard permanently removed because it's such a pain to keep putting it on and taking it off. But as long as US regulations insist on those useless kickback pawls, the high splitter/knife is here to stay.

[paulmcohen]

Next week it applies only to "new designs", but what does that mean. How much change is allowed before it is a "new design". But in 2014 it applies to all saws sold.

From reading the article they talk about two benefits of a riving knife, close proximity to the blade (which the Shopsmith guard has) AND the top of the knife sits slightly below the top of the blade (something the Shopsmith guard does not).

When UL says "must include a riving knife", which feature must you have.

If Shopsmith has this feature today they should be hyping the hell out of it, "First US saw meeting UL Safety guideline..."

I have also seen somewhere an upgrade for the Shopsmith splitter to give it the second feature maybe someday Shopsmith will offer it.

[Ed in Tampa]

Paul
The Sharkguard allows the blade guard to readily be removed and the riving knife to stay in place. The riving knife can be made to go lower than the blade so it can stay in place for non through cuts.

If you want to find out about the Sharkguard do a google search on the word Sharkguard. It is made to fit many different saws but there is one made particularily to fit Shopsmiths.

As for the UL requirements I think this is just the first in many changes I think are coming.

In Europe I'm told you can't sell a table saw onto which a Dado blade can be attached. Basically they make the arbor short to prevent being able to mount the stacked blade set.

I also believe Europe has laws on dust collection or the amount of dust the tool is allowed to expel or not captured by dust collection system.

Personally I think these restrictions are excellent and I believe we are going to see them soon in America. Interestingly the insurance industry is bringing about many of these changes. I know commerical shops that had to make radical changes in their operations to be able to get affordable insurance. One of the first things to be removed in these shops were table saws. One wholesaler in my area eliminated a tablesaw, panelsaw, 12 inch Radial arm saw to go to the guided tool system. They got a huge reduction in their accident insurance because of this. Also I know many schools and places that allow non employees to use saws have switched to Sawstop technology again for the huge cost savings in their insurance.

Now the question is what will the American woodworking equipment manufactures do? Will they simply modify their machines to fit the requirements or do actual redesigns. I'm hoping for redesigns as most of the designs presently used are based on 100 year old technology.

We have seen glimpses of new technology in the Dewalt 746 saw and Shopsmith Sawsmith 2000. Both of these machines show thinking outside the box and utilization of new technology. Unfortunately most in the woodworking world never explored either, instead they hang on to their 100 year old designs, where the fix for everything is more iron and bigger motor.

There is a one new comer the Sawstop but unfortunately it is new technology made to conform to old ideas. I would have like to seen a complete redesign of the table saw using Sawstop technology.
Ed

[solicitr]

In Europe I'm told you can't sell a table saw onto which a Dado blade can be attached. Basically they make the arbor short to prevent being able to mount the stacked blade set.

That strikes me as going too far. I don't see how a dado stack is especially dangerous, especially when (on larger pieces) the alternative is a handheld router- one of the most dangerous tools in any shop.

[Ed in Tampa]

That strikes me as going too far. I don't see how a dado stack is especially dangerous, especially when (on larger pieces) the alternative is a handheld router- one of the most dangerous tools in any shop.

Solicitr
Why do you call the handheld router the most dangerous tool in any shop?

I know when I first got a router I got a low cost one that ran at one speed and was non plunge and frankly with all the chips, sound and everything else I avoided it like the plague. However I now have soft start, variable speed plunge routers that I no longer avoid.

Like any tool that cuts wood a router can do damage to you but I beleive routers as one of the safer tools.

As for dado's I didn't make the law but I do understand the danger.

I have seen wood literally explode while being cut with a dado. Thankfully in the instance I witnessed the operator had experienced it before and had his hands in very safe positions. I'm not so sure I would have been as careful.

I think there is the danger of finger placement where an operator always has his finger outside the cut line of the blade but not thinking about the increased width of the dado cut places his finger in his customary spot and to his dismay runs his finger into the stack.

Also I think many people do not use zero clearance inserts when using dado blades and have had problems with fairly large pieces of wood being hurled back at them.

One last item that enters my mind is the danger of setting up a dado stack. Plenty potential for getting nicked or making the mistake of not unplugging the machine before adjusting the stack.

Lastly I have seen dado's particuarily on Radial arm saw climb onto the wood and walk (very quickly) across it.

I only use dado blades when my router simply can't do the cut for some reason. By the way a router cut dado is in my opinion a much more cleaner cut as most dado either leave a grooved or curved bottom.
Ed

[solicitr]

Lastly I have seen dado's particuarily on Radial arm saw climb onto the wood and walk (very quickly) across it.

Yes, but an RAS turns backwards compared to a tablesaw, so all cuts are climb cuts- it's the equivalent of feeding a TS from the back side!

I don't dispute that in many cases a router is the tool of choice, especially in large panels; but OTOH tou're constrained to set bit sizes (unless you want to make two passes, with all the niggling involved in adjusting the cut)- I don't see why woodworkers should be denied the choice. All power woodworking tools are potentially dangerous.

[reible]

A couple of years back on a forum far far away I remember a discussion about the issue of dado blades in Europe. At that time we had a member who was from England and as I recall he said that the table saws had a length restriction of something like 7/8" shaft length. This ment that not only dado's but other blade designs that required much width (moulding heads ???) could not be used.

He also said the reasons for not being able to have dado blades in europe was not having to deal with any danger from the blade while cutting but rather with the fact that the saws have a brake on them and the mass of anything other then a blade was the issue. If you have to much mass then the blade with attempt to continue to spin which then could cause it to spin off the shaft as the forces are now backwards of the thread direction you want.

Not all saws have the notched washer that shopsmith does... which I would think is a better way to go rather then making the shaft shorter....

Now I can not say if this information is correct or not but if we have any members here from Europe maybe they can address this.

Ed

[wurlitzerwilly]

A couple of years back on a forum far far away I remember a discussion about the issue of dado blades in Europe. At that time we had a member who was from England and as I recall he said that the table saws had a length restriction of something like 7/8" shaft length. This ment that not only dado's but other blade designs that required much width (moulding heads ???) could not be used.

He also said the reasons for not being able to have dado blades in europe was not having to deal with any danger from the blade while cutting but rather with the fact that the saws have a brake on them and the mass of anything other then a blade was the issue. If you have to much mass then the blade with attempt to continue to spin which then could cause it to spin off the shaft as the forces are now backwards of the thread direction you want.

Not all saws have the notched washer that shopsmith does... which I would think is a better way to go rather then making the shaft shorter....

Now I can not say if this information is correct or not but if we have any members here from Europe maybe they can address this.

Ed

Ed.

Certainly in the UK we're currently suffering from the worst cases of nannying that you could ever hope to avoid!
Most of this is based on meddling by "elf 'n' safety nazis" who's agenda is interference to further their own careers. Much of this is fuelled by the further idiots in Brussels and a lot of it appears to have been borne out of paranoia, bordering on mental insanity! As this is not a political forum, I will refrain from a tirade over the PC brigade and religious minorities!! Suffice to say that the same insanity prevails.

The shaft length rule and the business of braking does apply at least in the UK and is highly likely to apply to Shopsmith as the legislation applies to new products. "New" usually meaning recently constructed and sold after legislation day. When the article was designed is irrelevant. I would guess that new Shopsmiths already in the UK but not yet sold, would be required to be retrofitted.

Personally, I believe that brakes on table saws are like ABS on cars. A great idea that can help the unwary under certain conditions, but drivers do have the habit of driving to the limit and ABS has now moved the 'limit' up a few notches, so the safety zone's been diminished. The only brakes that I have on power tools are on cordless screwdrivers, and that's to prevent screws stripping or tearing out. It's not for safety reasons.

My own stance is that woodworkers should have the fear of God put up them and be well and truly told that any tool with a blade is extremely dangerous and should be treated with the utmost respect. No amount of fancy braking gizmos can replace the good advice - "Keep your body parts well away from anything that's sharp or moving at speed"!!!

[curiousgeorge]

Amen, Alan!