Dual Carriages

[dusty]

with a second main table.

mtobey, in another General Woodworking thread made mention of configuring his Shopsmith with dual carriages.

I opened this thread so that this subject might be discussed, added to, praised or criticised in a manner that is easy to reference in the future.

I have configured my Shopsmith with a dual main table as well. Why, so that I can cut large pieces (sheet goods) without feeling unsafe.

I have heard many comments about the small Shopsmith table being a big drawback - it is not.

The extension tables and floating table, if used, make that criticism null and void.

Nonetheless, today, I installed a second carriage and main table. I now have 84 1/2 inches of table top with four inches of gap strategically located throughout.

I will post pictures and comments on the configuration after I have had an opportunity to work with it. With infeed and outfeed tables attached, it looks awesome. Time will tell if it is reasonable.

Using a second main table is "overkill". The Shopsmith, with proper use of floating and extension tables, handls wide stock very well.

[chiroindixon]

Dusty...all the more reason to look at where and how I mounted the same router switch that mtobey did. If this idea was good enough for David Marks......I ain't selling nothing but a better idea, that I stole from him.

Go to ssug.org...."gallery"...."top rated" (I'm rather proud of that) "Shopsmith safety switch"

With your new configuration and having to handle large work pieces....the kick bar is the way to shut the unit down fast and keep both hands safe on piece....or have it shut down as you are backing away....fast.

I'll admit my safety fanaticism is rooted in my Mark V biting two of my fingers very badly....My fault....not it's. Any measure to protect a serious case of the dumb ass from striking twice.

Hell...you are retarded from the Air Farce.....you should understand.

Doc

[Ed in Tampa]

with a second main table.

mtobey, in another General Woodworking thread made mention of configuring his Shopsmith with dual carriages.

I opened this thread so that this subject might be discussed, added to, praised or criticised in a manner that is easy to reference in the future.

I have configured my Shopsmith with a dual main table as well. Why, so that I can cut large pieces (sheet goods) without feeling unsafe.

I have heard many comments about the small Shopsmith table being a big drawback - it is not.

The extension tables and floating table, if used, make that criticism null and void.

Nonetheless, today, I installed a second carriage and main table. I now have 84 1/2 inches of table top with four inches of gap strategically located throughout.

I will post pictures and comments on the configuration after I have had an opportunity to work with it. With infeed and outfeed tables attached, it looks awesome. Time will tell if it is reasonable.

Dusty
I imagine tilting the SS into Drill press mode is a real chore. I would think you would have to have the lift assist. Then I would think with the lift assist and extra carriage you would severly limit the size of any lathe turning. Not a big problem for me since I rarely turn.
Can you give us a few ideas of weight increase, you know not exact pounds but heavy, really heavy, too heavy to lift. Also what is the new max lathe lenght?
I may be odd man out but I have learned breaking down sheet stock (4x8 ply) using a circular saw and guide has really changed my need for a lot of bed support on the my Shopsmith. I never try to man handle a full sheet of ply any more. The most I do is slide it out of the bed of my truck onto my cut table (two saw horses with 2 inch thick foam insulation board) and cut it into the sizes I need. Right now I use cut measure, adjust, figure, adjust to get my guide right but I hope to soon have a guided saw system where the guide rails go right on the cut line.

Let us know how the added carriage effects your overall usage of the your Shopsmith.
Ed

[mtobey]

I bought an extra tie-bar. With a die grinder and carbide spiral cutter, I opened up the tie-bar so that it can slide down. The ceiling in my basement is a little tight for raising the SS. If I slide the new tie-bar down just a few inches, the ways rotate up on either side of a floor joist. I have made a cradle for the headstock so that I can lift a bit and block it up; then I slip off the tie-bar and slide the carriage off- this is if I need more length between centers. Were I to take on a project with lots of legs to be turned, I would just make the set-up standard. Takes about 2 minutes from two moving tables to regular configuration.

To save myself hassles, I have a third complete table assembly. It has a cheap but servicable x-y drillpress vise bolted on. Remove table set up for sawing, drop in the table with vise, turned as would serve in standard drill press mode, clamp material in vise, center with the cranks and table raising lever, and drill away horizontally.mt

[dusty]

ed in tampa, et al:

The maximum distance between centers, with the extra carriage installed, is 28 1/2". The carriage occupies 5 1/2" of the way tubes.

I have the lift assist. With both carriages, complete with tables, I would describe the lift as heavy. It is about the same as without the lift assist and only one carriage and table. With the auxillary carriage installed, going vertical mode, is IMO ill advised. The center of gravity has been shifted upward. The setup is much, much more prone to tip.

Take the extra table off. The weight of the carriage alone is insignificant.

Weight would not be the limiting factor for me. Nor would the reduced lathe capacity but either could be for some users.

The auxillary table tilts left as normal but cannot tile right due to the headstock. However, in this configuration (table to the left of the headstock) there would be no reason to want to tilt the table.

I would use this configuration only if I was dealing with a lot of sheet material.

With the rip fence on the left hand table (blade in right hand table) I could rip or cross cut any sheet of plywood but I would want an assistant. The length of the rip fence is a more critical issue, than the width of the table. Infeed and outfeed tables, I believe, are a neccessity.

Ripping long pieces (of anything) with that short of a fence can get you in trouble. Featherboards are necessary on long narrow stock (other than sheet goods).

I was very, very satisfied with how the tables aligned. Without doing any alignment, the miter tracks were within a 1/16" of parallel. I know that if I installed the 5' tubes and performed a detailed alignment everything would be as perfect as with a single table.

[mtobey]

I had assumed we were talking about at least removing the table assembly before going to upright. Then, the center of gravity of the carriage being the same as the rest of the remaining essentials( except the powerhead), makes impact on stability minimal. And the modified tiebar makes stripping the right side of the machine easy. I will likely store the through tiebar on the ways to the right of the unmodified tiebar- perhaps do away with the standard configuration; I don't sense any real loss of structural integrity.If I position the machine so it is centered under the space between those overhead joists, the slight extra width of the tiebar casting won't let the ways fit between. If it is confusing - with the tiebar four or so inches down from the tips of the bars/tubes, the tool sits vertical with a tube on each side of the overhead floor joist and is still rigid.mt-- Note, if the miter express is as helpful as I hope, the extra leftside support may not be as beneficial- and to have any benefit, the left table would need a spacer panel on it to match the thickness of the M. Ex..

[charlese]

Dusty - You are a "Wild and Crazy Guy"! But always fun! Happy Holidays!

[james.miller]

You should still be able to use an OPR attachment with the extra carriage installed. You might have to lower the work table slightly but it should work.

Good idea, glad somebody thought of it.

Is it possible to mount a router table to it and then the router table could be between the left extension table and the main table. Would this make the router table more difficult to use?

[reible]

Dusty I loved the pictures of he two table shopsmith with sails up! How fast do you think she will go with a good wind???

Some time a while back I seem to recall you having talked about this before... or at least I think it was you. Wasn't it something about using miter slots for something or other??

I have seen the two table thing before. Gee that may have been pre-web days.... I am getting old. Anyway it was before Shopsmith come out with the larger tables and connecting tube idea. It sort of made since for certain projects but then you can't keep it on all the time. Any tool that mounts to that side of the tool will no longer work due to the space need for the carriage... ie belt sander, strip sander, jig saw, scroll saw, jointer, band saw, and such. That alone would put me off.

I have to go with the other Ed on this one, I'm not at the point were I can do large sheets of plywood or sheet goods by myself on the shopsmith anymore. Much easier to brake it down first with a circular saw and edge guide. Even if I could still do it I think the 510/520 tables and extensions fore and aft would work fine... after all I use to do it on my 500 without the added benifits of the 520 hardware.

I can see some special cases where someone would want this option and it is good that more people know about it. Always good to expand our look at what can be done with a shopsmith.

Now I'm picturing a Nortic bow on your ship and maybe a few oars sticking out the side and oh yea a greatbig rudder out the aft section....

[just being silly here but this is what the set up brought to mind: http://www.nordicstudycircle.org/viking_ship.gif )

Ed

[dusty]

She'll not be put under full sail again. This was just a test in the vertical mode so that I could answer Ed in Tampa's question about weight.

It is about the same (with lift assist and two tables) as going vertical without lift assist. Heavy but doable.

I have no arguement with anyone who says the best way to handle sheet goods is on a pair of saw horses. Yes, that means I don't need all that table space but I have it so I set it up to see if I can make reasonable use of it.

I have reconfigured and will do some pictures later. Pictures are much easier than a verbal description. My object was to allow depth of cut adjustments and use of table tilt without doing a complete tear down. I have succeeded.

I have mounted my router table to the left side of the left extension table. I use two telescopic legs for stability. I'm thinking about a cabinet on wheels, for router accessories, to take the place of the telescopic legs.

To go vertical, all I have to do (extra) is remove the auxillary table.

If reduced lathe capacity becomes an issue, all I have to do is remove the way tube tie-bar, pull off the carriage, and reinstall the tie-bar. Two minutes and I have regained the 5 1/2" lathe capacity that I lost.

Ed, I did talk about using dual miter slots for a cutoff table. I bought the miter bars and have cut the material for the table but have not assembled yet. Other priorities keep getting in the way. I did rip two pieces of wood to fit the miter slots and attached they to a piece of plywood to similate the sled. Purpose, check for binding caused by non-paralled miter tracks. Results were good. Now with dual tables, this will be much better. Without doing a table alignment on the second table, I measured the separation of two miter slots. They deviated from parallel by less than 1/16". This was after my second tear down and rebuild today.

I found two problems today, however. 1) My 5' tubes are not true; they bind when I slide them through all of the tables (rails) installed end to end. 2) I have two cracks in the edge of one of my extension tables. The rail on that end is visibly out of alignment.

I converted one of my floating tables to an extension table (tapped the holes and installed studs) to solve that problem. I will use the defective floating table where it does not impact alignment.

I had all of my tables lined up, side by side, upside down on my work bench today. That's how I noticed the cracked table. All of the rails lined up perfectly (except that one). I was impressed and a little bit surprised to see just how well they did line up.

Well, I made no sawdust today but I had fun. She's all back together. I'll wax the tables tomorrow, touch up the new table alignment and I'm ready for a new year of projects. The next sawdust won't happen until the new year, we'll be gone for the holiday.

Pictures - later. Merry Christmas everyone and that includes all of the guests who read this. Come join us for 2008.