Molding/Dado arbor- too long?

solicitr · Post by **solicitr** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:55 pm

I may be too slick for my own bad self. I orderd the molder/dado or 'universal' arbor figuring I'd use it with my 5/8" bladesas wll as the dado stack.

Well, well, well. It seems that this arbor rams into the crossbar under the table just before the blade clears the slot in the table insert- or, if you put a spacer behind it, the riving knife can't possibly align on the blade. Have I missed something? Or am I still on the hook for a 5/8" sawblade arbor?

(PS: in my brief acquaintance with SS Inc I've formed a very favorable opinion of the company and its products- but this dogged insistence on a nonstandard arbor size is annoying, as are the nonstandard miter tracks and t-nuts. Delta and Powermatic and Jet don't mind universal dimensions, so why does Shopsmith?)

paulmcohen · Post by **paulmcohen** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:10 am

You will need another 5/8" saw arbor, and in defense of Shopsmith 50+ years ago there was no standard and changing it would have removed the possibility of 1,000,000 owners to upgrade without replacing everything we own.

The arbors are frequently on sale, I have a dedicated one per blade so I can quickly change them, I am sure most tablesaw owner would love to be able to change blades in seconds with an allen wrench.

I have also complained about the lack of third-party accessories but it seems to be getting better lately (Carter, PNI, Incra, Dubby, Sand Flee and others all sell accessories now for the Mk V either directly or through Shopsmith) as other vendors are seeing demand to have their accessories available on Shopsmith machines. In some cases the Shopsmith versions are cheaper that what is available for other machines. I balance I think they made the correct decision.

a1gutterman · Post by **a1gutterman** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:21 am

solicitr wrote:
....Or am I still on the hook for a 5/8" sawblade arbor?

I am afraid that you need the saw arbor too .

(PS: in my brief acquaintance with SS Inc I've formed a very favorable opinion of the company and its products- but this dogged insistence on a nonstandard arbor size is annoying, as are the nonstandard miter tracks and t-nuts. Delta and Powermatic and Jet don't mind universal dimensions, so why does Shopsmith?)

The fact that SS SPT's, most replacement parts, and most other accessories fit the Mark V going way back, and the fact that most owners would not want to have to refit their Mark V's with new tables and miter guages etc., pretty much you and SS are both stuck with the SS standards. If they started using the same dimensions that "everyone else" uses, current owners, in the 100s' of thousands would be forced to "update" their tables and accessories to accomodate the "new" standard, or not be able to use new accessories. Or SS would have to offer 2 ways to do everything. SS would not have the resources to offer two ways to do everything, so that is not going to happen. I would not like to have to "update" my SS in that manner, so I would be one very unhappy customer if they chose to make a change to match everyone else. I am happy the way it is. Many companies are coming around to accomodate to the SS. Incra, Kreg and others. Anyone else want to "update" to a new standard?

It seems as though Paul posted while I was writing this, so I have somewhat repeated some of the things he said. Sorry for that, or repetition might be a good thing?

paulmcohen · Post by **paulmcohen** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:28 am

How could I forget Kreg, it is even in my signature:o

solicitr · Post by **solicitr** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:46 am

Yeah, I do see your point about the miter track (although there was an opportunity to change over when the 510 was introduced, when the T-track came in and a new miter bar was part of the upgrade).

But the saw arbor? It's a (relatively) inexpensive part; the 510 made the old shorter ones obsolete anyway (they throw in a new one with the upgrade), and it's not as if everybody's 1-1/4" arbors would stop fitting the spindle!

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:40 am

[quote="solicitr"]Yeah, I do see your point about the miter track...
But the saw arbor? It's a (relatively) inexpensive part]
I understand your frustration - getting surprised by the arbor issue. Let's look at it this way (in order to placate all of the old SS owners and all those who bought shiny new ones); The 1 1/4" arbor has a nice blade holding set of clamps that hold onto the blade at a about two inches from the center of the blade. I think this gives the 10" saw blades a little more stability than most 5/8" ones. I think this stabilizes the blades better than the 5/8" arbors without adding washers. True?

If this is true, one wonders why other manufacturers haven't gone to a larger arbor.

reible · Post by **reible** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:12 am

solicitr wrote:I may be too slick for my own bad self. I orderd the molder/dado or 'universal' arbor figuring I'd use it with my 5/8" bladesas wll as the dado stack.

Well, well, well. It seems that this arbor rams into the crossbar under the table just before the blade clears the slot in the table insert- or, if you put a spacer behind it, the riving knife can't possibly align on the blade. Have I missed something? Or am I still on the hook for a 5/8" sawblade arbor?

(PS: in my brief acquaintance with SS Inc I've formed a very favorable opinion of the company and its products- but this dogged insistence on a nonstandard arbor size is annoying, as are the nonstandard miter tracks and t-nuts. Delta and Powermatic and Jet don't mind universal dimensions, so why does Shopsmith?)

Hi,

When the 5/8" arbor comes it comes with a set of special washers, most of these can be placed anywhere on the threaded portion... or as the case might be removed. Of course you need at least one set of the larger ones and the locking washer. This allow the location of the saw blade/hubs to be in different postions.... I'm guessing you have played with this and can't find anything that lines up? I seem to recall having done this way back when using my 500 but I'm not all that sure how it worked. I know I haven't done this since I've gone to the 520. And of course I'm guess you know about the adjust for the knife location???

In most case the blade alignment issue is not an issue when using this universal arbor... dado blades. molding cutters, grinding wheels and such do not require a splitter or top guard for that matter. Currently 38 deg in the shop or I would go out and take a look myself today.

The blade arbors and sanding disk hubs cost me a lot when I did the upgrade from 500 to 520, I had to upgrade I think it was 5 sanding disks and at least a half dozen arbors... some just under $200 as I recall. That is one of the reasons I tell people to do the upgrade as soon as you can... done do like I did and get bit upgrading all of those 500 parts with new ones.

I still own a few of the larger arbor blades but everything I've purchase in say the last 25 years has been the 5/8". I use to use the large washers that helped with stablizing the blade but even those have not been on in years... the blades are so so much better today then they were back 30 - 40 years ago. The damping they laser cut in works wonders. I personally so no reason for using anything else...... but that is just me.

Ed

solicitr · Post by **solicitr** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:06 am

Of course you need at least one set of the larger ones and the locking washer. This allow the location of the saw blade/hubs to be in different postions.... I'm guessing you have played with this and can't find anything that lines up?

That's right. Each of the narrow spacers is 3/16"- and you can just barely get that much with the lower housing adjustment screw, just before it falls out of the threads. So technically you can get the splitter to align, and stop the arbor a frazz short of the crossbar: but that's with the table level. You can't tilt at all.

Oh, well. Live and learn.

Still, I think for a thousand bucks SS could have tossed in a 5/8" arbor. I don't mind the eighteen dollars + shipping so much as the hassle of having to order it and wait for it before I can cut (the SS blades that came with this MkV are the old steel ones, rusty and dull).