Newbie with questions on Mark V and Mark VII attachments

[hobbyist7]

Hello all,

A Mark VII from the 1960s was recently passed down to me. It seems to have come with a fairly complete set of the larger parts (table for table saw function, tool rest, etc.). After thoroughly cleaning the machine over the past several days and lubricating in recommended spots near the sheaves, I turned it on for the first time in about 15 years and it ran well!

My attention then turned to the attachments and I soon discovered that I may not have a complete set of the standard-issue items (e.g., the chuck and key are missing, and I can not find any attachments to mount wood on the lathe). If any of you more experienced owners can answer the following questions, I would be grateful:

1) For items like the chuck and the attachments to mount wood on the lathe, are Mark VII and Mark V parts 100% interchangeable? I gather there is a much bigger supply of Mark V parts....

2) Does anyone have close up photos of the standard-issue attachments? I do have a list in an old manual, but all the parts are arrayed in a single photo, so many are so tiny I can't make out any distinguishing features, so it is hard to know what I should be looking for when I am inventorying what I do have or hunting for replacements.

Happy Holidays!

[JPG]

1) Yes!

2)
http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/cata ... enters.htm
http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/catalog/dr_chuck.htm

[robinson46176]

I looked for good pictures but didn't find much.
Below is a picture of mine of what will be your biggest threat to operating your Mark VII, the plastic speed control cam.
[ATTACH]14975[/ATTACH]
The bearing in the yoke from the pulley on the right can heat up and fail and it then usually melts the plastic cam. It is "NOT" available new... Even though it is a sealed bearing I have been thinking of trying a few drops of the same oil that I apply to the little bearings on router bits (also sealed bearings). Other than the plastic cam I actually like the Mark VII better than the Mark V speed control as far as just operating it.
I do have a spare cam but it would be harder to pry from my fingers than my S&W's.
The plastic rack gear on the front way tube was also a blunder on the Mark VII but you can get along fine without it if it breaks. If the cam goes you are done until you either find one or have one made or design another way to control the speed like with a lever or crank adjustment. On the plus side if you remove the rack gear from the way tube (or swap the front tube out for a plain one, a sound one should Ebay very well) you can easily slip a Mark V headstock onto the Mark VII (even a Power-Pro headstock). At least a Power-Pro headstock would still have the reversing feature...
If you change to another model headstock (a 10-E or 10-ER will not fit) you will have to remove the table positioning rod from the Mark VII carriage. On the Mark VII that rod fits in a hole on the headstock and allows you to quickly reposition the table/carriage back to the same position relative to the headstock each time. You can also loosen both the headstock lock and the carriage lock and move both assemblies to another spot on the way tubes and they will still be in the same relative position to each other. Handy if you want to mount or dismount a SPT but keep your saw setup.
I keep reminding folks that the Mark VII was designed as a major step up from the Mark V with a lot of improvements like the bigger table and other goodies (reversible, 2 way tilt, the above mentioned positioning rod, the crank headstock positioning, built in dust collection, the 2 way extension table etc.) and were it not for the old Shopsmith going under at that time the 2 problems (which may have shot them down) could have been quickly corrected and it would have evolved into a truly great machine that was superior to the Mark V it was intended to replace.


.

[JPG]

I looked for good pictures but didn't find much.
Below is a picture of mine of what will be your biggest threat to operating your Mark VII, the plastic speed control cam.
[ATTACH]14975[/ATTACH]
The bearing in the yoke from the pulley on the right can heat up and fail and it then usually melts the plastic cam. It is "NOT" available new... Even though it is a sealed bearing I have been thinking of trying a few drops of the same oil that I apply to the little bearings on router bits (also sealed bearings). Other than the plastic cam I actually like the Mark VII better than the Mark V speed control as far as just operating it.
I do have a spare cam but it would be harder to pry from my fingers than my S&W's.
The plastic rack gear on the front way tube was also a blunder on the Mark VII but you can get along fine without it if it breaks. If the cam goes you are done until you either find one or have one made or design another way to control the speed like with a lever or crank adjustment. On the plus side if you remove the rack gear from the way tube (or swap the front tube out for a plain one, a sound one should Ebay very well) you can easily slip a Mark V headstock onto the Mark VII (even a Power-Pro headstock). At least a Power-Pro headstock would still have the reversing feature...
If you change to another model headstock (a 10-E or 10-ER will not fit) you will have to remove the table positioning rod from the Mark VII carriage. On the Mark VII that rod fits in a hole on the headstock and allows you to quickly reposition the table/carriage back to the same position relative to the headstock each time. You can also loosen both the headstock lock and the carriage lock and move both assemblies to another spot on the way tubes and they will still be in the same relative position to each other. Handy if you want to mount or dismount a SPT but keep your saw setup.
I keep reminding folks that the Mark VII was designed as a major step up from the Mark V with a lot of improvements like the bigger table and other goodies (reversible, 2 way tilt, the above mentioned positioning rod, the crank headstock positioning, built in dust collection, the 2 way extension table etc.) and were it not for the old Shopsmith going under at that time the 2 problems (which may have shot them down) could have been quickly corrected and it would have evolved into a truly great machine that was superior to the Mark V it was intended to replace.


.

AMEN!!!!!!!!

P.S. I think Bill Mayo's idea to supply much oil to the control sheave(in fast position thus placing a surplus in the cavity between the end of the idler shaft and the 'snout' bearing) and then raising to vertical overnight is a good way to maintain a well lubricated bearing. The bearing is shielded, not sealed, so oil will seep in. I would not do this to a relatively new(still lubricated with grease) bearing, but once old enough to be drying out it will help prevent the bearing seizing up and . . .

[chucks]

The plastic rack gear on the front way tube was also a blunder on the Mark VII but you can get along fine without it if it breaks.

.

Question.... Ok maybe not so bright Questions..does anyone know if you can obtain metal gears that would work in this set-up. Mine is fine but like the speed control cam I'm always on the look out for an upgrade in this area.

[JPG]

Question.... Ok maybe not so bright Questions..does anyone know if you can obtain metal gears that would work in this set-up. Mine is fine but like the speed control cam I'm always on the look out for an upgrade in this area.

Probably not, but I have seen some made from hardwood.

[hobbyist7]

Thanks very much for both responses - very helpful! Great to see that the parts are still available from the company too if my relative can't find them.

For now, my cam seems to be in good shape (as are the plastic teeth on the way tube). I hope it will stay that way!

I like your suggestion regarding letting some oil seep into the bearings. I will need to look inside to visualize where to put the oil. Where exactly are the bearings located vis a vis the cam - is there a diagram someplace that shows where they are? And what kind of oil would you recommend? I used 3-in-1 to lubricate the two holes near the sheaves.

Before turning the machine on I completely cleaned the inside of the casing (time-consuming, as there are many nooks and crannies that aren't easy to get to). But I think it was important given the amount of sawdust and masonry dust that had built up there. Once clean, everything looked pretty good. But I found myself wondering how long the belts might last. They may even be original equipment. They look pretty good to my untrained eye and the width of the v-belt is still within tolerance (I ready someplace it shouldn't go below 7/16", and it's only about 1/2 way there). In your experience how long do each of the belts last? I dread replacing them, as it looks to be a pretty complex disassembly process…

One other question: my first project is likely to be turning something on the lathe (something my 8-yr-old son is quite excited about and reminds me of a few times a day). How much better is it to have the live center vs. the cup center on the tailstock? Do you get a lot of buring with the cup center? I read one post that said putting some wax on the point of the cup center helped. Does this fix the problem, and if so, is paste wax ok?

Thanks again!

[JPG]

Thanks very much for both responses - very helpful! Great to see that the parts are still available from the company too if my relative can't find them.

For now, my cam seems to be in good shape (as are the plastic teeth on the way tube). I hope it will stay that way!

I like your suggestion regarding letting some oil seep into the bearings. I will need to look inside to visualize where to put the oil. Where exactly are the bearings located vis a vis the cam - is there a diagram someplace that shows where they are? And what kind of oil would you recommend? I used 3-in-1 to lubricate the two holes near the sheaves. Hole in the control sheave snout. With the speed control set to fast, the hole is off the end of the idler shaft. 3 -n 1 is good. The metal part that 'hooks' over the sides of the cam is attached to the center race of the bearing which is press fitted into the end of the control sheave 'snout'.

Before turning the machine on I completely cleaned the inside of the casing (time-consuming, as there are many nooks and crannies that aren't easy to get to). But I think it was important given the amount of sawdust and masonry dust that had built up there. Once clean, everything looked pretty good. But I found myself wondering how long the belts might last. They may even be original equipment. They look pretty good to my untrained eye and the width of the v-belt is still within tolerance (I ready someplace it shouldn't go below 7/16", and it's only about 1/2 way there). In your experience how long do each of the belts last? I dread replacing them, as it looks to be a pretty complex disassembly process… 7/16 is extreme. The drive belt starts out a bit OVER 1/2". Unless it is slipping, or the speed range becomes extremely fast(or worst case the belt drops down between the idler shaft sheaves) it should be ok.

One other question: my first project is likely to be turning something on the lathe (something my 8-yr-old son is quite excited about and reminds me of a few times a day). How much better is it to have the live center vs. the cup center on the tailstock? Do you get a lot of buring with the cup center? I read one post that said putting some wax on the point of the cup center helped. Does this fix the problem, and if so, is paste wax ok?
As long as it acts as a lubricant AND does not 'contaminate' the workpiece.
Thanks again!

Good Luck!

[billmayo]

AMEN!!!!!!!!

P.S. I think Bill Mayo's idea to supply much oil to the control sheave(in fast position thus placing a surplus in the cavity between the end of the idler shaft and the 'snout' bearing) and then raising to vertical overnight is a good way to maintain a well lubricated bearing. The bearing is shielded, not sealed, so oil will seep in. I would not do this to a relatively new(still lubricated with grease) bearing, but once old enough to be drying out it will help prevent the bearing seizing up and . . .

AMEN!!!!!!!! AGAIN

Very true words. Very few older headstock Control Sheaves get enough lubrication even if oiled and left in the horizontal position (FAST Speed Control position). I have not seen or found any problems from excessive Control Sheave oiling (8-12 drops or a good shot) once a year. I have not found that any of the excess oil has ended up on either of the belts, only on the insides of the casing over time. Don't forget to put a few drops of oil on the end of the motor shaft and the key when lubricating the motor Floating Sheave at this time.

[hobbyist7]

AMEN!!!!!!!! AGAIN

Very true words. Very few older headstock Control Sheaves get enough lubrication even if oiled and left in the horizontal position (FAST Speed Control position). I have not seen or found any problems from excessive Control Sheave oiling (8-12 drops or a good shot) once a year. I have not found that any of the excess oil has ended up on either of the belts, only on the insides of the casing over time. Don't forget to put a few drops of oil on the end of the motor shaft and the key when lubricating the motor Floating Sheave at this time.

Thank you. I have oiled the motor shaft (by prying the spring back). I will try the control sheave. By horizontal, I assume you mean the orientation of the sheave (i.e., ways are flipped and headstock is positioned as a drill press)? Also, what is considered to be the "fast" position? My speed control just has various functions (e.g., routing) and RPM levels.