The Affordable HealthCare Decision

[JPG]

No, what I am saying is if health insurance were mandatory that all would pay reduced costs into a larger pool, this in NOT socialism this is a basic principle of insurance.

This is the definition socialism.
so·cial·ism/&#712]
[*]1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.[/LIST]Since the Affordable Helath Care act uses multiple public/private companies as providers, it is by definition NOT Socialism.

Definition ok in the strict sense.

Socialized medicine-A system controlled by a governing entity that determines what services are rendered and by whom to those who need medical attention.

Change a few details, involve profitable insurance companies and health care conglomerates as well as all other smaller players and government bureaucracies and you have something resembling OC.

Any time you remove the 'consumer' from ALL decision making and defer those decisions to something else a socialistic like system exists. I do not have a word for that, but it is a negative aspect of socialism.

[fredsheldon]

Failure to adequately prepare for the unexpected consequences of life might really be the leading cause of bankruptcy.

People with manageable debt that suddenly need health care don't need to claim bankruptcy.

What it seems you are saying is that if we had socialized medicine, bankruptcy in this country would be no more. We would all spend within our means.

So Dusty, are you saying you have $500,000 in cash reserves in the bank to pay for open heart surgery or do you have health insurance. For those who do not have insurance (30 million folks), most of them probably do not have that kind of money tucked away for a rainy day. What say you

[JPG]

He said, I said, I meant....

I took Dusty's three statements as tongue in cheek!

Start with a premise that is not all inclusive.

Add a connection to another 'detail'.

Extrapolate the second with the inabsolute first and one gets an invalid conclusion.


Logical statements cannot include the words might and seems(as well as many other qualifiers).

Due to the logical inconsistencies it can(and was) mis-interpreted.

Stop worrying about it! - WE ain't gonna change it - Now next November....?

Regardless of how it is defined today(two years ago) it shall be altered - somehow by somebody!

[dforeman]

I'm not sure I fully understand the complexity of the whole situation or even what they are planning to do with this new legislation. There is probably a whole lot more to this than what is being disclosed (there usually is when it comes to politics). But anyway, I still pay for my healthcare and every year they keep raising the cost more and more. And when we do get a Cost of Living increase, it usually doesn't even cover that years increase in benefits. Now I'm not typically the type that goes running to the doctor's everytime I get a scratch/bunp/cold/etc but there are occasions when it is necessary. And when it is, I notice that it costs me more and more in co-payments every time. So how this new legislation will correct the whole problem of increasing medical costs, we will just have to wait and see.

Now I'm not against affordable health insurance for all US Citizens. That is the responsible thing for our government to do for use. But, I wonder how much of this is being expanded to include illegal aliens who do not pay taxes or health benefits (another suject that completely bothers me with this current legislation). I find it kind of convient how this all falls directly after the anouncement by the president that the government will no longer be deporting illegal aliens from ages 1 to 39 (I'm guessing they have determined that 99% of illegals fall into that age catagory).

[JPG]

I'm not sure I fully understand the complexity of the whole situation or even what they are planning to do with this new legislation. There is probably a whole lot more to this than what is being disclosed (there usually is when it comes to politics). But anyway, I still pay for my healthcare and every year they keep raising the cost more and more. And when we do get a Cost of Living increase, it usually doesn't even cover that years increase in benefits. Now I'm not typically the type that goes running to the doctor's everytime I get a scratch/bunp/cold/etc but there are occasions when it is necessary. And when it is, I notice that it costs me more and more in co-payments every time. So how this new legislation will correct the whole problem of increasing medical costs, we will just have to wait and see.

Now I'm not against affordable health insurance for all US Citizens. That is the responsible thing for our government to do for use. But, I wonder how much of this is being expanded to include illegal aliens who do not pay taxes or health benefits (another suject that completely bothers me with this current legislation). I find it kind of convient how this all falls directly after the anouncement by the president that the government will no longer be deporting illegal aliens from ages 1 to 39 (I'm guessing they have determined that 99% of illegals fall into that age catagory).

You just had to bring that up! IIUC they will not be deported. Citizenship? Maybe next term.

What I do not understand is why the local health department(quasi-governmental agency) has mostly hispanic clients.

Charity is one thing, but IMHO it belongs at home(on a permanent basis).

[letterk]

I'm not sure I fully understand the complexity of the whole situation or even what they are planning to do with this new legislation. There is probably a whole lot more to this than what is being disclosed (there usually is when it comes to politics). But anyway, I still pay for my healthcare and every year they keep raising the cost more and more. And when we do get a Cost of Living increase, it usually doesn't even cover that years increase in benefits. Now I'm not typically the type that goes running to the doctor's everytime I get a scratch/bunp/cold/etc but there are occasions when it is necessary. And when it is, I notice that it costs me more and more in co-payments every time. So how this new legislation will correct the whole problem of increasing medical costs, we will just have to wait and see.

Now I'm not against affordable health insurance for all US Citizens. That is the responsible thing for our government to do for use. But, I wonder how much of this is being expanded to include illegal aliens who do not pay taxes or health benefits (another suject that completely bothers me with this current legislation). I find it kind of convient how this all falls directly after the anouncement by the president that the government will no longer be deporting illegal aliens from ages 1 to 39 (I'm guessing they have determined that 99% of illegals fall into that age catagory).

I would guess there isn't a hospital in the US that won't treat an emergency case. We as a society are already providing the healthcare. Would universal healthcare change that situation for what it is now? We don't have debtors prisons in this country so that isn't a threat.

Locally we had a hospital whose billing contractor use the threat of no service to force payment. The billing collector came calling before the doctor. After the hoopla, that billing contractor probably doesn't have a presence in the state anymore.

[cincinnati]

Is this healthcare bill good? No one knows for sure. The big unknown in this right now is how much will a basic policy cost?
What I do know is something needs to be done. For example, Myself and a bunch of co workers lost our jobs ,two years ago, after 24 years of service. All of us paid and used our health care for 24 years. When we lost our jobs, we lost our insurance. Most went on COBRA but that was only temp. All that has ended now for us. I can give you a long list of names of coworkers who now have no insurance (but willing to pay for it) because they have preexisting condition. I am not talking Cancer or some major health problem. I'm talking people who take a high blood-pressure pill or asthma. One lady I worked with (retired before co. closed) had surgery on her leg. Her private held policy is now $1,400 a month. To see her she is as healthy as a horse.
If you look at the stock market yesterday, Hospital stock went way up. Why? because they now know they will get paid. 25% of people never pay their hospital bill because of no insurance.

FYI- The healthcare bill guarantees a group plan right now has to accept you on their insurance. People were mistaken that if you got a job, they had to let you on to their insurance before the bill. The mandate for a private plan does not kick in till 2014.

I understand the concern with the individual mandate. I have insurance and always will have insurance as long as I can afford it. I see no problem with making people pay for their own care. The mandate never will affect me. If it does, the fine for a single person with no insurance is $95 a year.



I just wish people would read about the plan before having an opinion.

[robinson46176]

Read the first sentence in the body of the article a couple of times:
http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2008-04-10-immigrantstaxes_N.htm

They pay sales taxes, property taxes (even if through their landlord, I always cover property taxes in the rent charged), they buy cars and pay excise taxes and license fees... The list goes on.
Much is often made of many of them working under the table but I know of many many "citizens" doing that too...

Don't get me wrong, illegal is illegal... My beef is all of the people believing all of that hate crap that gets shoved into their email inbox and that can't wait to shove it on...
Most of that tripe is generated with no intent to accomplish something other than to verify sell-able email addresses and they are carefully constructed to push peoples buttons so they will pass it on to all of their contacts.
Hidden hate (and some not so hidden) is now becoming an art form on Facebook and similar locations.

BTW, my paternal Robinson line came here illegally as far as the "true Americans" already here were concerned... They came sneaking in across the east border at some place called Virginia and took what they wanted by force. Of course it was in 1666 and some guy across the pond told them they could but he had never even seen the place... Just thought it should be his...


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[fredsheldon]

The results of your poll so far shows that everyone who responded has health insurance. It's easy to be against something that would benefit those who don't have something if you already have it. I wonder how the poll would look if all responders didn't have or can't get health insurance.

[pennview]

The Affordable Health Care Act is an oxymoron. It will neither improve health care, nor be affordable. It will lead to the rationing of health care, with government employees setting so called health standards; some say death panels. Seniors will suffer because it cuts Medicare spending by $500 billion. Relief, however, is possible in November.