You know this post could use some pictures.
I'm a little confused on what is being said. I thought at first we were looking for a cone drive but then I got lost as to what we are talking about.
Can anyone clear this up for me?
Ed
Dead/drive center for Shopsmith?
Moderators: HopefulSSer, admin
Pictures (shamelessly taken from around the web):
It seems that bettyt44720 is correct: there are no commercially available dead/drive centers for the Shopsmith. Cone drive, someone else called it.
Making one won't be that hard, I just wanted to know what my options were.
Holsgo, I would like to get together to meet you and see your setup. I don't know what a lathe dog is that you mentioned. The drive I am talking about works by friction. The pen blanks are small and light enough, that it is supposed to work quite well. Thanks for the offer. Let me see what I can make here of wood or some plastic that I have on hand (no corian like bettyt44720 used - but that sounds like a good choice) and see how far I get.
I like wa2crk's idea of re-purposing the SS screw center drive since I don't have a collet chuck to hold my soon-to-be homemade cone drive in. If I use a hard enough material I could use the Jacob's chuck. And once I get a good G3 back in the mail, that would be an option too. But turning one on the screw center and leaving it set up like that would ensure it to run absolutely true with no error due to re-chucking.
It seems that bettyt44720 is correct: there are no commercially available dead/drive centers for the Shopsmith. Cone drive, someone else called it.
Making one won't be that hard, I just wanted to know what my options were.
Holsgo, I would like to get together to meet you and see your setup. I don't know what a lathe dog is that you mentioned. The drive I am talking about works by friction. The pen blanks are small and light enough, that it is supposed to work quite well. Thanks for the offer. Let me see what I can make here of wood or some plastic that I have on hand (no corian like bettyt44720 used - but that sounds like a good choice) and see how far I get.
I like wa2crk's idea of re-purposing the SS screw center drive since I don't have a collet chuck to hold my soon-to-be homemade cone drive in. If I use a hard enough material I could use the Jacob's chuck. And once I get a good G3 back in the mail, that would be an option too. But turning one on the screw center and leaving it set up like that would ensure it to run absolutely true with no error due to re-chucking.
1955 Greenie, modified to be reversible
A soft material -- corian, plastic, wood, etc. -- would be a better choice than steel, as you wouldn't have to worry about nicking your lathe chisels by running into a steel center at the end of the pen blank. If you have a screw center, that really sounds like the easiest option.
Art in Western Pennsylvania
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terrydowning
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 1678
- Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:26 pm
- Location: Windsor, CO
Actually, many TBC (Turning between centers) pen turners have great results with carbide and HSS dead centers.
Softer materials tend to get dinged up really fast as the brass tubes from the pen cut into the softer material and just eat them up. Once they are gouged up, you have to reface them or risk turning Out Of Round. I pretty much have to reface my maple dead center about every 3 or 4 pens. The delrin isn't much better. I'm hoping the aluminum will last longer between facings and be easier to reface with just a file. The brass tubes will not gouge steel dead centers.
The advantage to TBC pen turning is improved accuracy and much less out of round which can be caused by a flexing or bent mandrel. The dis-advantage is, you can only turn one tube at a time, so if you're into slimlines or other 2 tube pens, it may be worthwhile to keep using that mandrel and use the center bushing to ensure sizing matches. It makes it much easier to measure both tubes at the same time while on the lathe. Another disadvantage is a lack of commercially available bushings that will accomodate being set on 60 degree centers. (Most TBC turners usually hate commercial pen bushings anyways as there are notorious QC issues with different manufacturers.) They either make their own, order them custom, or like me don't use them and measure with a caliper. (This is less than optimal if you're in production mode)
At any rate I use a PSI collet chuck to hold my home made dead centers.
The method of using dead and live centers was adapted from the metal turning world. They work great for holding tubular objects between centers. 60 degrees is the magic number the metal guys figured out for holding on to spindles and tubes on the lathe. This is also why you should use a 60 degree live center (As opposed to a wood workers live center) for holding on to a pen mandrel. If you look carefully you will see a 60 degree facing milled into the live center end of the mandrel.
Look at the end of your SS Spindle (or any metal spindle that got spun on a lathe), you will see a 60 degree hold point milled into the end. If you have a shaft removed, look at the spline socket, see the facing?? Many motor shafts have 60 degree facings on both ends (TBC turning with dead and live centers to machine the bearing surfaces and balance the shaft)
dead/live center TBC turning is a fairly common technique for metal guys from what I gather. This is why MT dead centers are readily available but one to slip onto a 5/8 arbor/shaft. Most 5/8s shafts/arbors are for saws and grinders and such, not lathes, certainly not metal lathes.
Sorry for the long winded post, just my thoughts and knowledge on the subject.
Softer materials tend to get dinged up really fast as the brass tubes from the pen cut into the softer material and just eat them up. Once they are gouged up, you have to reface them or risk turning Out Of Round. I pretty much have to reface my maple dead center about every 3 or 4 pens. The delrin isn't much better. I'm hoping the aluminum will last longer between facings and be easier to reface with just a file. The brass tubes will not gouge steel dead centers.
The advantage to TBC pen turning is improved accuracy and much less out of round which can be caused by a flexing or bent mandrel. The dis-advantage is, you can only turn one tube at a time, so if you're into slimlines or other 2 tube pens, it may be worthwhile to keep using that mandrel and use the center bushing to ensure sizing matches. It makes it much easier to measure both tubes at the same time while on the lathe. Another disadvantage is a lack of commercially available bushings that will accomodate being set on 60 degree centers. (Most TBC turners usually hate commercial pen bushings anyways as there are notorious QC issues with different manufacturers.) They either make their own, order them custom, or like me don't use them and measure with a caliper. (This is less than optimal if you're in production mode)
At any rate I use a PSI collet chuck to hold my home made dead centers.
The method of using dead and live centers was adapted from the metal turning world. They work great for holding tubular objects between centers. 60 degrees is the magic number the metal guys figured out for holding on to spindles and tubes on the lathe. This is also why you should use a 60 degree live center (As opposed to a wood workers live center) for holding on to a pen mandrel. If you look carefully you will see a 60 degree facing milled into the live center end of the mandrel.
Look at the end of your SS Spindle (or any metal spindle that got spun on a lathe), you will see a 60 degree hold point milled into the end. If you have a shaft removed, look at the spline socket, see the facing?? Many motor shafts have 60 degree facings on both ends (TBC turning with dead and live centers to machine the bearing surfaces and balance the shaft)
dead/live center TBC turning is a fairly common technique for metal guys from what I gather. This is why MT dead centers are readily available but one to slip onto a 5/8 arbor/shaft. Most 5/8s shafts/arbors are for saws and grinders and such, not lathes, certainly not metal lathes.
Sorry for the long winded post, just my thoughts and knowledge on the subject.
--
Terry
Copy and paste the URLs into your browser if you want to see the photos.
1955 Shopsmith Mark 5 S/N 296860 Workshop and Tools
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AmpX5k8IhN7ahFCo9VvTDsCpoV_g
Public Photos of Projects
http://sdrv.ms/MaXNLX
Terry
Copy and paste the URLs into your browser if you want to see the photos.
1955 Shopsmith Mark 5 S/N 296860 Workshop and Tools
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AmpX5k8IhN7ahFCo9VvTDsCpoV_g
Public Photos of Projects
http://sdrv.ms/MaXNLX
Hi,
Here is a picture that shows both the shopsmith 1/4" and 1/2" router chucks along with a centering tool. This was mentioned earlier but I figure a few pictures might not hurt.
I have one centering tool I keep with my drilling stuff and another I keep with my router stuff. They are very useful and worth buying even if you don't go with this for lathe turning.
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Ed
Here is a picture that shows both the shopsmith 1/4" and 1/2" router chucks along with a centering tool. This was mentioned earlier but I figure a few pictures might not hurt.
I have one centering tool I keep with my drilling stuff and another I keep with my router stuff. They are very useful and worth buying even if you don't go with this for lathe turning.
[ATTACH]18051[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]18052[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]18053[/ATTACH]
Ed
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terrydowning
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 1678
- Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:26 pm
- Location: Windsor, CO
That is very interesting. Personally I have been improving my Mandrel technique over the last 5 years, but it sounds like dispensing with the mandrel altogether could take things to the next level. Thanks for the explanations!terrydowning wrote:
Sorry for the long winded post, just my thoughts and knowledge on the subject.
Chris
Sorry but I do not think shopsmith sold these.terrydowning wrote:Hmm, that might work.
Is that Centering tool from shopsmith?
I have two but no markings to identify them. They are common use item for routers and sold in a lot of places that sell router items.
I personally don't use them for what most people think of as centering but they are useful when making sure you in alignment. Also lets you check where the drill bit is going to come down, much better then using the real drill bit to do this.
Ed
I have a couple dead centers. Never use them for woodworking, but I don't make pens. My wood spindle turning is normally tapered table legs.
Getting into metalworking a bit really has opened up options I never knew about as well as allowed me to make any woodworking project need, like tools, tooling etc. I don't find myself cussing lowes or home depot anymore. I just have a pile of scrap steel from a local business and make a part. Drawback is that I have to pretend that I actually know metalworking but I can fake it kinda well.
I mentioned I could turn mt2 arbors if there was a need for one. Matter of fact I'll be turning a few shortly to make more tooling, which I'm lucky, the metal lathe shares the mt2 with the Shopsmith.
Getting into metalworking a bit really has opened up options I never knew about as well as allowed me to make any woodworking project need, like tools, tooling etc. I don't find myself cussing lowes or home depot anymore. I just have a pile of scrap steel from a local business and make a part. Drawback is that I have to pretend that I actually know metalworking but I can fake it kinda well.
I mentioned I could turn mt2 arbors if there was a need for one. Matter of fact I'll be turning a few shortly to make more tooling, which I'm lucky, the metal lathe shares the mt2 with the Shopsmith.