glue up/ glue selection

dlbristol · Post by **dlbristol** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:52 pm

I am making this bench: http://www.finewoodworking.com/Workshop ... x?id=29507
and I have the material pretty much ready to assemble the legs. I have the jigs and fillers made. As I played around with this dry fit, I am concerned with time it took me to get this all together, especially the lower filler for the mortis at the bottom rail. Titebond III says 10-15 minuites, which seems like a long time, but TB II does not give me the max advertised 10 minutes here in the dry air. I managed to get the whole thing dry fit in about 6 minutes, but I think it will be closer to 8-9 for the first glue surfaces when I actually spread glue. Some other sources say to use more glue to extend the open time. Since this can be easily sanded, and has to be done with some wax paper anyway, excessive squeeze out is not a huge issue. Hide glue would seem to be an option, but I know nothing about it, and have never used it. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

beeg · Post by **beeg** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:35 pm

Liquid hide glue will give ya much more open time, but it's knot moisture resistant. Do ya HAVE to assemble it all at the same time?

greitz · Post by **greitz** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:07 am

Titebond also makes Titebond Extend glue, which is supposed to give you longer open times. (I've never tried it, so I can't verify that.)

Gary

rpd · Post by **rpd** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:18 am

dlbristol wrote: Hide glue would seem to be an option, but I know nothing about it, and have never used it. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

Shipwright has three recent, short videos demonstrating the use of hide glue on his YouTube Chanel.

Hide Glue #1
Hide Glue #2
Hide Glue #3

backhertz · Post by **backhertz** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:00 am

Started watching the videos and this one came on:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf2qfOm6 ... laynext=12

pennview · Post by **pennview** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:44 am

Titebond polyurethane glue gives you an open or working time of 30 minutes, or at least that's what they say, so it's a good choice for complicated glue-ups, and they say that that's a longer working time than other polyurethane glues. You could also try one of the Titebond "extend" wood glues, which give you a longer working time than the normal version of the same type glue. The "extend" glues are thinner than the normal version.

Liquid hide glue has a decent open times, but just make sure if you use it you get fresh glue. I don't use the stuff because it's the only glue I've ever used that completely failed on me. I surfaced glued together two pieces of oak and the joint eventually separated at the glue line. I'm thinking the glue was old, but I don't know for sure and it's not something I want to repeat so I just avoid the stuff.

You should wear latex gloves if/when using the polyurethane glue because it turns black and is hard to remove from your hands.

Something you might want to try is adding a couple of brads between the components of your assemblies and then cut off the heads about an 1/8" above the surface of the wood. Just sink the brads about half way into the wood and then use a pair of nippers to remove the heads. This leaves sharp enough points exposed to hold the parts in place and help keep the assemblies aligned instead of slipping all around as you try to clamp the parts once the glue is applied.

letterk · Post by **letterk** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:46 am

Here are the of characteristics Titebond, but I would imagine that other similar brands should have similar specs. Doesn't look like they list the specs for the extend version though.

[ATTACH]18398[/ATTACH]

shipwright · Post by **shipwright** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:37 pm

rpd wrote:Shipwright has three recent, short videos demonstrating the use of hide glue on his YouTube Chanel.

Hide Glue #1
Hide Glue #2
Hide Glue #3

Thanks for the reference Ron.

If open time is an issue, hot glue is not the answer but liquid hide glue is a good one. It has some of the advantages of the hot glue but not all. What it lacks is the immediate tack and lack of need for clamping. What it retains is the extremely high strength and reversibility. I don't have any experience with Tightbond LHG but have used Old Brown Glue which is made by Patrick Edwards and available through this link.

Hot glue gets initial tack from cooling and often needs no clamps. If you use liquid hide glue, understand that it cures only by drying and should have mechanical fasteners or clamps for 24 hours.

Paul M

pennview · Post by **pennview** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:10 pm

Titebond Extend and Titebond II Extend both have an open time of 15 minutes, according to the Titebond website.

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:05 pm

What does "OPEN" mean?
Sequence of glue up of parts of a project is extremely variable. We try to design and make glue ups and clamping in a sequence that allows proper curing time.

I used to worry quite a bit over "OPEN TIME" however that worry has gone away after several (a lot) of glue up experiences. It seems to never fail that when in the middle of making a complicated glue up, the wife calls and demands immediate help or attention.

I think I have learned that "OPEN TIME" means just that - OPEN!! This time (at least in my shop) is extended with the closing of glue joints before clamping. There always seems to be some time after joint closing before clamping is needed. Trying not to play this time to unreasonable extents, I have never had a glue joint failure because of stretching the camping time. I have extended clamping time up to 30 minutes - not because I wanted, but because of other circumstances. I always try for 10 minutes or less.

This experience is all using Titebond II.

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glue up/ glue selection

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