eye opening vid

holsgo · Post by **holsgo** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:59 am

No matter your political leaning you will find this fascinating. A well done take, with facts, on illegal immigration. He sends three copies when you order. About 2 hours especially interesting to you Arizonians.
http://www.theycometoamerica.com

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:36 am

holsgo wrote:No matter your political leaning you will find this fascinating. A well done take, with facts, on illegal immigration. He sends three copies when you order. About 2 hours especially interesting to you Arizonians.
http://www.theycometoamerica.com

I don't need the film. I witness the contents of that film daily. Go to any mall in Tucson and you will see the cultural mix that is typical of a border state.

Go to any construction site and listen to the chatter; it is multi lingual. Go to any emergency room. Go to a city park on the week ends. Go anywhere in town where one can apply for financial assistance. Go to any public school on registration day (any day really).

This is not something that can be blamed on this administration. What we are talking about has been happening here for many years, for several administrations.

What is happening is not all bad. These are all good people. These are people simply trying to survive while living in a broken system. If you must have someone to blame, blame all of the government administrations that have existed in the past. We used to speak of the "Melting Pot" in a prideful way; what has changed? Nothing except the numbers.

Yes, They Come to America.

holsgo · Post by **holsgo** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:49 am

Yes, this goes back 30 or more years and luckily it's explained here. I wouldn't say they are all good people, nor is everyone in my office building a good person though. Nonetheless, a very, very broken system.

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:25 am

I often wonder what would happen if we spent as much money on improving the social/economic situation in Mexico as we do trying to keep illegals out of this country.

I often try putting myself in their shoes. I imagine we have nothing, my family is always in danger of thieves, we have no real protection because in many cases the police are corrupt. My children are getting lousy education. And I look across the border and I see a place where even the poorest has far more than me, they are safe, and the police are honest. I see a place where children are given a far better education, giving them a real chance in life. And I think what would I do? You know I would almost certainly take a chance of smuggling my family across that border. If I'm a real parent I have to try to improve their chance for happiness as much as I can.

We constantly give money to countries that burn our flags, storm the walls of our embassies, kill our people. We spend a ton of money securing our borders. My question is why don't we take that same money and invest it in Mexico. Not give them a hand out but invest in them, build factories, schools, hospitals, highways systems, infastructure, and malls. Yes even malls everything we can to improve their economy and social environment.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:36 am

Ed in Tampa wrote:I often wonder what would happen if we spent as much money on improving the social/economic situation in Mexico as we do trying to keep illegals out of this country.

I often try putting myself in their shoes. I imagine we have nothing, my family is always in danger of thieves, we have no real protection because in many cases the police are corrupt. My children are getting lousy education. And I look across the border and I see a place where even the poorest has far more than me, they are safe, and the police are honest. I see a place where children are given a far better education, giving them a real chance in life. And I think what would I do? You know I would almost certainly take a chance of smuggling my family across that border. If I'm a real parent I have to try to improve their chance for happiness as much as I can.

We constantly give money to countries that burn our flags, storm the walls of our embassies, kill our people. We spend a ton of money securing our borders. My question is why don't we take that same money and invest it in Mexico. Not give them a hand out but invest in them, build factories, schools, hospitals, highways systems, infastructure, and malls. Yes even malls everything we can to improve their economy and social environment.

I don't know how much we invest in Mexico but living right on the border as I did in El Paso and sorta do here in Tucson is a definite eye opener. Equally so were the three years during which I worked in an industrial complex in Nogales, Sonora.

They are no different in their wants and needs. The big difference is in the opportunities that are afforded them. Thus the illegal migration problem.

holsgo · Post by **holsgo** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:24 am

Right about now, I'm not really in favor of any financial subsidy to any country anywhere when we can get out own house budget in order. It's fine to give money when we have it...or even consider giving it but I don't see how other countries are our responsibility. I understand the protect our interests point of view...but being free is very expensive and we are out of money.
We got a lot of uninvited guests at our party, I can't imagine paying for a party at someone else's house will fix it.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:02 pm

holsgo wrote:Right about now, I'm not really in favor of any financial subsidy to any country anywhere when we can get out own house budget in order. It's fine to give money when we have it...or even consider giving it but I don't see how other countries are our responsibility. I understand the protect our interests point of view...but being free is very expensive and we are out of money.
We got a lot of uninvited guests at our party, I can't imagine paying for a party at someone else's house will fix it.

I don't advocate supporting the whole world. If the uninvited guests were all made legal, at least some of them would be paying their share of taxes thus reducing the burden.

On the news, they report that only 46% of us pay income tax. What I would like to know is who are these people. Why do they not pay. If it because they live on a little to nothing - I understand. If they, however, avoid taxes, I then advocate that they be sought out and be made to pay.

OR Tell me how I can avoid to pay them.

holsgo · Post by **holsgo** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:26 pm

I get what you are saying but we already did round one of the "make them all legal" route under Reagan in the 80's. Then we increased immigration from 250,000 in the 70s to 1 million a year in the 90s. My point is giving them all amnesty didn't work, more still came. There is no easy answer but to cut off available jobs, truly enforce the border, and stop with any social benefit to those with no ssn. No one wants this problem, none of us voted to increase the numbers, none of us get to vote to stop it, we get no real say in it other than to trust those that refuse to deal with it. And they don't deal at all. And it's not just those that come here that are the problem. Americans need to get back to the trades, put our kids to work again doing work we did as kids and make stuff again...it's a problem that will take a wide swing at a solution, not a bunt.

anmius · Post by **anmius** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:07 pm

dusty wrote:On the news, they report that only 46% of us pay income tax. What I would like to know is who are these people.

According to Forbes, the remaining 54% consists of the following:
60% did pay "Payroll Taxes" (Social Security and Medicare)
18.1% are "Seniors" (someone who has paid payroll taxes in the past)

See the following link for more information:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/janetnovack ... taxes-too/

dforeman · Post by **dforeman** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:47 pm

Interesting video and yes immigration is a major problem here in the US. And, I can see all the points brought up here are valid.

As an Environmental/Resource Manager I see this as a major population issue (like mentioned only the numbers have changed). Plant and Wildlife Management really is just effective Population Management. In fact, I see the whole world as really being over populated. The more folks we have the more stress on our resources (water, waste, jobs, food, housing, etc). I hear our local governments always talking about ways to increase growth but yet they use the catch phrase sustainability. Unfortunately, growth is not ultimately sustainable. Someplace/somewhere along the way you reach a total point of saturation where you can't possibly grow anymore. How many folks can the US possibly supply jobs for? I can say with some degree of certainty that right now we are already experiencing a situation in this country where our waterways are being stressed by excess nutrients from waste water, Ag and other land use applications. Again to create more growth and produce more food, jobs, fuel, etc. Ultimately, in an effort to maintain a quality of life we are all used to living. And, folks in other countries see this and want this same quality of life also. Now how do we fix this, I have no idea. My field of study only gives me the skills to predict cause and effect. If this were a 1,000/10,000 acre Wildlife Reserve, it could be effectively managed towards some degree of stability. Unfortunately, the US and the World is much more complex. But, I do know folks and governments are going to have to do something and make some changes. We have a saying in the Natural Resource field, "Mother Nature has a way of evening things out." It may not be nice, it may not be humane, and it may not be very pretty though. And, I see where this same principle can be applied here. If we don't get this figured out, something is going to break loose. But, weather it happens in our life time or not is yet to be seen.