Newbie User - Base Setup

jma · Post by **jma** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:15 pm

I inherited a mid-eighties model 510 recently, and had to disassemble it for transport home. I'm reassembling it now, and have a couple questions regarding way tube setup. I can't find the answers in the manual since originally the unit was shipped partially assembled.

On one end, the lower way tubes have a depth stop, and it's clear where they need to be positioned on that side of the base. On the other end, the lower tubes can be positioned with a lot of variation. The upper tubes have an obvious depth stop at both ends. So, with all four tubes in place, and all bolts and set screws snugged down except those for the lower tubes where they "float" (no depth stop), what is the desired position? Do I want nearly zero clearance between the upper tube tie bar and its rest? Or 1/4" or ??

Put another way, how much of the lower tubes should be exposed? I can have anywhere from just shy of 48", up to 48.5" plus. The slack can be taken up by the adjusting screw in the upper tube lock mechanism, so... does it even matter?

Also, should the upper tube tie bar lie flat on it's rest, or should it be tilted a little? Mine does not sit flat, and I would have to run the set screw all the way up to make contact on that side.

I hope this is clear enough... hard to explain. Thanks in advance for any help!

John

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:56 pm

John

Have you read all of this thread and viewed the photos:

https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=1423

and this quote also taken from the same thread. I think these address your question. If not, come back - we'll take another crack at getting into the sawdust business.

billmayo wrote:A common problem and often not done correctly. I went looking for some instructions but did not find any in my extensive Shopsmith library. I have now added this instruction to my disk file library.

If the way tubes are fully seated in the base arm and way tube tie bar then check that the bench tubes are not pass the small raised stops in the headrest and base. These raised stops may be hard to see or feel with the bench tubes in place but they are there. These stops are very critical as they determine the SPTs and extension table alignments. I have a set of sawhorses made to set the bench tubes on so I can slightly loosen the bolts holding the bench tubes and gentle tap/move each end to make sure that the bench tubes are resting againest the raised stops. Tighten the bench tube bolts. Then recheck if the tie bar fits in the headrest. Sometimes, it takes a few tries to get this adjusted correctly. If the tie bar alignment is still too long, I loosen the bench tube bolts at one end. Then make sure that both tubes are moved the same amount away from the raised stops. Only make a maximum of about a 1/4" movement as the tubes may not longer be supported by the last rib in the ends. Tighten the bolts and check again. If the tie bar location is too short, I loosen its setscrews and lock the tie bar. Then unlock and retighten the tie bar set screws. The bench tubes are 52 3/4" and the way tubes are 52", same OD. I always measure to make sure the right set of tubes is used in the right location.

Bill Mayo

jma · Post by **jma** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:41 pm

Dusty, thanks for the (quick!) response. I did read that earlier thread, and Bill's post in particular. It is certainly on topic, but I still don't quite understand. I think Bill is saying that there are raised stops at both ends of the bench tubes. I don't seem to have those stops at the head-rest end of the bench tubes, and that is the adjustment I'm having trouble with.

To clarify some more: my bench tubes are longer than my way tubes. The bench tubes at the pivot end of the unit are seated against their stops. The way tubes are fully seated in both the pivot end and the headrest / tie bar end. But at the headrest / tie bar end of the bench tubes - that's where I'm confused. Should there be stops there? I don't seem to have any, so the tubes can be set relative to the cross bar plus or minus quite a bit. That of course affects the clearance of the way tube tie bar as it sits on the headrest, and that clearance is what I'm asking about. Is there a standard? Or is it OK just so long as it sits firm, lifts easily, and can be secured by the adjustable lock?

That, and the tilt, or "cant" of the tie bar as it sits on the headrest. On mine, it is higher on the side where the vertical adjusting screw drives up into it, such that the screw would need to be fully 1/4" above the rest to make contact with the tie bar (whereas the other side, without the screw, sits flat on the rest). Is that normal?

Thanks again for any help. I do really want to "make some sawdust", but figure just like setting a foundation, the closer I get to true at the beginning, the less far I'll be from wrong at the end.

John

jma · Post by **jma** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:08 pm

Man, I said that so backwards... Hopefully not a sign of things to come!

jma wrote:
I do really want to "make some sawdust", but figure just like setting a foundation, the closer I get to true at the beginning, the less far I'll be from wrong at the end.

John

pinkiewerewolf · Post by **pinkiewerewolf** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:44 pm

Here is the picturee Dusty took that addresses your question, I think.
I'm still adjusting the tubes on my shorty and I can see what your asking, I'm just not sure of the answer.
http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/attachm ... 1205112224

jma · Post by **jma** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:30 am

John,

Yep, that looks like it (considering different models, and I'm not in the shop, etc.) How far in/out does that tube want to sit? As shown in the pic, "just a little past" the 2nd cast tab? Or flush with the outboard side of it? Or?? I don't see a depth stop there on that end (the head rest end), and that affects how the way tube tie-bar lays down on the rest. Again, within 3/8" or so, it may not matter with respect to "up the line" settings. It's just that I don't know, and want to set things up as near to perfect as I can from the beginning.

Thanks for the photo. Good visual aid.

Oh, and what's a "shorty"?

Thanks,

John

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:57 am

I don't know that this bit of information constitutes a standard but here it is. Use it for what it is worth.

My "Bench Tubes" show 48 1/8" of chrome (leg to leg) and the "Way Tubes are 48 1/16".

The bench tubes are 52 3/4" long and the way tubes are 52". With this info you can determine how much of the tubes are inserted. I would assume equally on each side.

Please read this though. I cut/pasted this from a post by Bill Mayo. He makes the point that this setup is critical to your future alignments.

If the way tubes are fully seated in the base arm and way tube tie bar then check that the bench tubes are not pass the small raised stops in the headrest and base. These raised stops may be hard to see or feel with the bench tubes in place but they are there. These stops are very critical as they determine the SPTs and extension table alignments. I have a set of sawhorses made to set the bench tubes on so I can slightly loosen the bolts holding the bench tubes and gentle tap/move each end to make sure that the bench tubes are resting againest the raised stops. Tighten the bench tube bolts. Then recheck if the tie bar fits in the headrest. Sometimes, it takes a few tries to get this adjusted correctly. If the tie bar alignment is still too long, I loosen the bench tube bolts at one end. Then make sure that both tubes are moved the same amount away from the raised stops. Only make a maximum of about a 1/4" movement as the tubes may not longer be supported by the last rib in the ends. Tighten the bolts and check again. If the tie bar location is too short, I loosen its setscrews and lock the tie bar. Then unlock and retighten the tie bar set screws. The bench tubes are 52 3/4" and the way tubes are 52", same OD. I always measure to make sure the right set of tubes is used in the right location

pinkiewerewolf · Post by **pinkiewerewolf** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:30 am

John, I bought a Mark V chasis in which the way tubes and the bench tubes had been cut down to make a "shorty" chasis.
They are handy to run the SPT accessories and I plan to mainly use mine as an out feed extension table by adjusting it to the same heigth and angle as my full size Mark V's table.
Pinkster

jma · Post by **jma** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:30 pm

dusty wrote:I don't know that this bit of information constitutes a standard but here it is. Use it for what it is worth.

Well, it's worth a lot to me, so thanks. If that's your setup, and you don't have any allignment or performance issues with your machine, then that's good enough for me.

I will look again for those "hard to find" tabs or stops on the head rest end, but failing that (or even in addition to) your measurements will help.

Thanks again,

John

jma · Post by **jma** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:36 pm

That sounds like a nice setup. I've been thinking about how I'm going to do an outfeed support with the (new to me) adjustable table height. Matching tables would certainly work, but I'll likely end up re-inventing the wheel...

pinkiewerewolf wrote:John, I bought a Mark V chasis in which the way tubes and the bench tubes had been cut down to make a "shorty" chasis.
They are handy to run the SPT accessories and I plan to mainly use mine as an out feed extension table by adjusting it to the same heigth and angle as my full size Mark V's table.
Pinkster