Poll - Do you have the PowerPro upgrade?

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:05 pm

First of all it is not the Unisaw that I compare to the Shopsmith at all. I can readily see that the Unisaw and the Shopsmith are not apples and apples. It is my lust for both that is comparable.

As for selling a million PowerPro headstocks - not a chance. There isn't a million wood working hobbyists left anymore. Those of us that have, use and love our machines are part of a dying breed. It has very little to do with what the competition is selling.

fredsheldon · Post by **fredsheldon** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:20 pm

I'm actually surprised that nobody has come up with a knockoff PP to compete with SS at half the price. I suspect that many of the No voters would consider an upgrade if the price was around $600 or so. If you were to venture a guess, how many SS owners do you think still use their machines in the world. 5,000? 25,000? Isn't there some guy that makes a variable speed motor for the 10ER's. Why couldn't that motor be adapted to the V?

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:56 pm

fredsheldon wrote:I'm actually surprised that nobody has come up with a knockoff PP to compete with SS at half the price. I suspect that many of the No voters would consider an upgrade if the price was around $600 or so. If you were to venture a guess, how many SS owners do you think still use their machines in the world. 5,000? 25,000? Isn't there some guy that makes a variable speed motor for the 10ER's. Why couldn't that motor be adapted to the V?

"Variable Speed" is not the differentiating factor. The speed range and associated torque is the big difference. Being quiet, as the PowerPro is, is an associated benefit but is not a selling factor either (at least not for me). I can have quiet with a pair of muffs.

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:13 pm

fredsheldon wrote:I'm actually surprised that nobody has come up with a knockoff PP to compete with SS at half the price. I suspect that many of the No voters would consider an upgrade if the price was around $600 or so. If you were to venture a guess, how many SS owners do you think still use their machines in the world. 5,000? 25,000? Isn't there some guy that makes a variable speed motor for the 10ER's. Why couldn't that motor be adapted to the V?

I think there are too many obstacles.

First I imagine Shopsmith has fairly well protected the Power Pro with patents.

Second I think the motor technology while perfected by another company probably has a non compete clause that prevents them or someone else from using their technology.

Third I would guess putting together a package that would allow UL certification could be messy.

Lastly convincing newer Shopsmith owners to give up all warrantee's from Shopsmith to install another company's product would be hard.

I'm sure there are other factors that prevent this.

Also I don't know how big the market is, it may be big enough to help SS survive but not big enough for a start up venture.

Lastly I don't think $600 is a realistic price. I would think it would have to be closer to $800-$1000 to give them normal cost to profit ratio. Which again is nearly twice what it costs to buy a standalone tablesaw that will give you all that the PP does for the SS in saw mode.

WmZiggy · Post by **WmZiggy** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:51 pm

I have two SS 500's, one made in 73, another in 82. I use them as accessory machines, owning other stand along equipment. I love my two machines, and I have never upgraded them beyond dual bearing quills. I would order one through Lowe's as with my military (retired) discount I could get 10% off. I just can't justify the expense as there is little I can't do with what I have. That said, I loved what I saw at a Lowe's demonstration last month.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:59 pm

WmZiggy wrote:I have two SS 500's, one made in 73, another in 82. I use them as accessory machines, owning other stand along equipment. I love my two machines, and I have never upgraded them beyond dual bearing quills. I would order one through Lowe's as with my military (retired) discount I could get 10% off. I just can't justify the expense as there is little I can't do with what I have. That said, I loved what I saw at a Lowe's demonstration last month.

Welcome back to the forum. I hope you stick with us on an active basis. We old guys enjoy company.

reible · Post by **reible** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:05 pm

Yet another prospective. The price of the powerpro has already gone up 10% (ish). I got mine just before the price when up. I feel the best you are going to do is a sale at 10% off.

I would not be shocked if we see another price increase. I would really be shocked to see a price decrease. I don't ever recall shopsmith dropping prices on big ticket items. I've been buying shopsmith since 1976, only a few years after the restart of shopsmith, a pretty good sample time.

One pleasure I have in life is woodworking. I have a rather large collection of shopsmith tools which are working for me. At this point I don't see anymore large purchases from shopsmith, well unless they come up with something different then what is now offered. I do still dream about a larger bandsaw, non shopsmith but I'm not sure that I want to spend another $1000 plus dollars at this point.

I'm not sure how long I have left in my life for this hobby so I want to enjoy the time I have. I also like the shine of new tools but my income will not allow too many of them anymore. Once retired things become different and while the $$ for my upgrade was no where in my budget I did it anyway. It is not a "need" in physical terms but certainly a boost for the spirits. I got more done this last year then the previous 4 years total. I can't promise you that but it happened for me.

I waited on the 500 to 520 upgrade, if I had it to do all over I would not have waited so long. BTW that was not a cheap upgrade either. I paid a lot less then the current $1300+. I don't recall what I paid but the 2005 catalog shows it at $1079.99. If you are waiting for that upgrade to go down in price good luck with that.

I did the upgrade and now have spare parts which I plan to use to put into use on one of my more needy machines. I will still end up with a motor as a spare plus a two bearing quill and some other parts as well. If you have more then one machine or plan to get an additional one this can be money saved. I know some sell the parts but that is not in my nature. (A new motor assembly will run about $360 new from shopsmith.)

To sum it all up, I'm happy I got mine and if some one offered to buy it back for what I paid I still keep it.

Ed

letterk · Post by **letterk** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:29 pm

I know the Dusty wholeheartedly disagrees with Ed, but I have to fall in with Ed on this one. I have to believe that a large percentage of those with 250+ posts are the hardcore Shopsmith users and are the ideal candidates for the first round of updates. They have to have everything and the Powerpro was a new way to freshen up there beloved SS and add a few features. Sure there are going to examples of people that aren’t on the forums, but have PowerPros. The price is high because it is a niche market and dropping the price isn’t likely to increase sales enough to combat the price drop.

I own a couple of 510s and while I would like to upgrade them to a 520, I bought the Ridgid saw he was talking about, but for $400 with a Harbor Freight coupon price match. It's a nice basic saw with weight (250lb worth) and I consider it the core of my workshop. As I said earlier, I’d upgrade it to a low price cabinet saw like a Grizzly/Steel City than to go to a PowerPro. The only way I would go with the SS only is if I just didn’t have the space (Maybe a can get a winter home where it is warm

).

Now, don’t’ get me wrong I love my Shopsmtih. I might not be the typically SS user, but like our newest poster said I use my SS as a fill-in. It covers the items that I really don't need as a standalone machine. I prefer to have a standalone table saw. I’d like to do some more turning, but no way am I going to go out and purchase a lathe and then store it. Same for the bandsaw, drill press and jointer at this point. Many of the other SS items I own, I own them because they are quality items, but the price was right too.

Every time I look at the upgrade, I remember that I have a table saw that really covers the need. The dual tilt would be nice, but without the PowerPro it isn’t a need for me.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:00 pm

letterk wrote:I know the Dusty wholeheartedly disagrees with Ed, but I have to fall in with Ed on this one. I have to believe that a large percentage of those with 250+ posts are the hardcore Shopsmith users and are the ideal candidates for the first round of updates. They have to have everything and the Powerpro was a new way to freshen up there beloved SS and add a few features. Sure there are going to examples of people that aren’t on the forums, but have PowerPros. The price is high because it is a niche market and dropping the price isn’t likely to increase sales enough to combat the price drop.

I own a couple of 510s and while I would like to upgrade them to a 520, I bought the Ridgid saw he was talking about, but for $400 with a Harbor Freight coupon price match. It's a nice basic saw with weight (250lb worth) and I consider it the core of my workshop. As I said earlier, I’d upgrade it to a low price cabinet saw like a Grizzly/Steel City than to go to a PowerPro. The only way I would go with the SS only is if I just didn’t have the space (Maybe a can get a winter home where it is warm ).

Now, don’t’ get me wrong I love my Shopsmtih. I might not be the typically SS user, but like our newest poster said I use my SS as a fill-in. It covers the items that I really don't need as a standalone machine. I prefer to have a standalone table saw. I’d like to do some more turning, but no way am I going to go out and purchase a lathe and then store it. Same for the bandsaw, drill press and jointer at this point. Many of the other SS items I own, I own them because they are quality items, but the price was right too.

Every time I look at the upgrade, I remember that I have a table saw that really covers the need. The dual tilt would be nice, but without the PowerPro it isn’t a need for me.

Ed and I disagree on a lot of things. For that matter, there may be alot of you who disagree with me but are just too nice to come right out and say so.

As for the first round on converts - they are already making sawdust in an almost noise free shop using their PowerPros.

swampgator · Post by **swampgator** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:02 pm

At $600, it would be a large strain on my civil service retirement check. I would have to save $20 per month for many months. Right now, I am hoping to save up for a 520 upgrade in a couple of years. It won't be coming out of my check, but from selling cans and wooden toys. Oh, the joy of being a retired federal worker. LOL

Shopsmith Forums

Poll - Do you have the PowerPro upgrade?

Do you have the PowerPro upgrade?

I like it, but it's expensive.