Sales tax

[Ed in Tampa]

Ed, Absolutely! I agree wholeheartedly: SS should NOT be collecting sales tax on sales that they make in states that they do not have a presence in (which is something a little different then an actual "physical" location). But, if they do one show, at a fair or something similar, they DO have a presence. Are you telling me that SS never "does" a fair or a homeshow, etc., in the state of Florida?

A1gutterman
I think after the last layoff Shopsmith got rid of all their salesman and only have kept the west coast traveling academy folks. I think the days of Shopsmith Demo's is over everywhere.
So in answer to your question, "Are you telling me that SS never "does" a fair or a homeshowm etc. in the state of Florida?" The answer is. At one time yes, but not anymore!

[charlese]

Boy! What a discussion! Having been a bureaucrat my entire working career, let me say this. As a worker and later as an executive engaged in serving the public needs - I was revolted by those expenditures that only served to increase the budgets of those involved. Yes, there is some of that in government, as well as in some private enterprises. You just can't get rid of all fraudulent uses of money, whether it is in the gov't bureaus or in banks/investments, or for that matter, industries.

But back to taxes! I think it was Adam Smith or maybe Ben Franklin that said, "The fair amount of taxes is the amount needed to run the government(s) we the people request." The only real way to lower taxes is to wean ourselves of some of the services we demand from our government(s).

Like Pogo said, "We have met the enemy and he is us!".

[ryanbp01]

I am still of the belief that Shopsmith would probably move more product is sales tax isn't collected, especially where there is no physical presence. Sales taxes are regressive in nature. Then again, it wouldn't surprise me if some elected official got the bright idea to creat a sales tax based upon the average tax rates of the states/territories to cover all online purchases. Anyone want to bet how long before we see that bright idea brought up at either the state or national level? For some reason, I keep thinking about the lyrics to that old Beatles tune- "Tax man".

BPR

[a1gutterman]

A1gutterman
I think after the last layoff Shopsmith got rid of all their salesman and only have kept the west coast traveling academy folks. I think the days of Shopsmith Demo's is over everywhere.
So in answer to your question, "Are you telling me that SS never "does" a fair or a homeshowm etc. in the state of Florida?" The answer is. At one time yes, but not anymore!

They still do 2 or 3 Fair shows per year here in western Washington, at least up to this date they have. But if they don't in Florida, Shopsmith is unnecessarily cooperating with your state by reporting, collecting and paying that tax.

[Ed in Tampa]

They still do 2 or 3 Fair shows per year here in western Washington, at least up to this date they have. But if they don't in Florida, Shopsmith is unnecessarily cooperating with your state by reporting, collecting and paying that tax.

That is why I asked the question in the first post.
To me it seems Shopsmith is shooting themselves in the foot.
First by collecting the tax they make their product x% (sales tax rate in your state) more expensive.
Second by collecting the tax they make themselves more work, tracking where the tax money came from, and submitting it to the proper state.

I think since they no longer have a direct sales presence in the eastern states they don't need to collect sales tax anymore. It would be a win win situation for us the customers and Shopsmith.
Ed

[ryanbp01]

Ed-

I agree with you 100%!

BPR

[dusty]

I'm not up on all these tax rules like some of you obviously are. I just pay what I have to and let it go at that.

Now I know that is just begging for a lecture from some of you, Ed but after all of these years with that attitude, I'm not likely going to change. I'll not live that long.

What I want to know is "what constitutes a presence in the state"? Does the TA coming around every now fulfill the requirement?

Where do you read the law that states that no "sales taxes" are due for purchases made by an individual in a state where Shopsmith has no presence (North Dakota for example).

Why would Shopsmith collect "sales tax" from someone who does not have to pay it. These days, Shopsmith has a presence in so few states, nless there is something going on that none of us are aware of. After all, Shopsmith is in Dayton, Ohio and no where else that I know of.

If Shopsmith collects from that poor schmuck in North Dakota, do they in turn pay it to the State of North Dakota? If they do, why? Yeah, I know, it would be tax fraud if they didn't.

[fjimp]

In many states Virginia included, tax laws are being passed requiring taxes to be paid either by the selling entity or the consumer. It matters not where those entities are loacted. I suppose that is yet one more outcome of a global economy. Believe it or not these tax requirements are due to fewer retail outlets stocking sufficient inventories; thus catalog and internet buying is robbing local stores and the tax collecting agencies of thier tax dollars. Failure to pay those taxes can be an expensive decision as the penalties can be far stiffer than the taxes themselves. What is the old saying "Give to Ceasar what is Ceasars." I for one would never ask Shopsmith or any other vendor to place themselves in jeopardy to save myself a few bucks. Jim

[Sonny]

The "new to me" SS that I bought was originally bought in 2002 from a SS representative at the Lowes store in Reidsville, NC. I have the original receipt that he got. It was sent from SS to him, and not to Lowes, but he paid NC sales tax on it.

I was in my local Lowes store this week and asked the employee there if they still sold SS, to which he replied "SS?". After I explained to him what it was, he said that they used to but they were all taken out, but that they could order parts for them. When I asked if he had any brochures on prices, he replied that they did not.

Is this enough to make SS have a presence in Va?

I ordered a couple of items from SS this week, and they added sales tax to the order.

I worked for governments for 36 years and learned long ago not to try to apply logic there, because there ain't a hole it will fit into!

Sonny in Martinsville

[a1gutterman]

Hi Dusty,
I will do my best to clarify your confusion;

I'm not up on all these tax rules like some of you obviously are. I just pay what I have to and let it go at that.

Now I know that is just begging for a lecture from some of you, Ed but after all of these years with that attitude, I'm not likely going to change. I'll not live that long.

I hope that you do not view answers to your questions as a lecture]What I want to know is "what constitutes a presence in the state"?[/quote]A company store; a non-company store that stocks their product; a demo whether or not they sell their product at the demo; any other time when someone comes into the state to sell their product.

Does the TA coming around every now fulfill the requirement?

Yes, because they don't just teach a class, they have product to sell.

Where do you read the law that states that no "sales taxes" are due for purchases made by an individual in a state where Shopsmith has no presence (North Dakota for example).

There is no such law so stated in Washington, in fact sales taxes are always due for retail purchases of any kind except for food and services (such as a doctor) in the state of Washington. It is just that, as a company doing business, if you are "outside" of a tax district, you are not obligated to collect for that tax district, but if you enter that tax district to promote your product, you are obligated to collect applicable sales tax, and forward it to the taxing authority for that district, on ANY sales of your product made in that tax district, including mail order (internet order). In reality, the taxing authority has no authority outside of it's own district. If a company that is outside of a particular taxing district decides to cooperate with that taxing district, and collect, report and pay the tax, they are going above and beyond any legal requirement that they have.

Why would Shopsmith collect "sales tax" from someone who does not have to pay it.

Who said that SS was collecting it from "someone who does not have to pay it"? SS is not obligated to collect, report and pay it for the purchaser, IF they do not have a presence in that tax district. The purchaser IS required to pay it regardless of how they purchased it, and that is where the taxing authorities have the problem. In my state, if you purchase something without paying sales tax on it at the point of sale, you are required to report that purchase to the tax district and pay a "use tax" rather then the "sales tax". The tax rates for both are identical to each other.

These days, Shopsmith has a presence in so few states, nless there is something going on that none of us are aware of. After all, Shopsmith is in Dayton, Ohio and no where else that I know of.

They are NOT just in Ohio]If Shopsmith collects from that poor schmuck in North Dakota, do they in turn pay it to the State of North Dakota? If they do, why? Yeah, I know, it would be tax fraud if they didn't.[/quote]All reputable companies that are collecting sales tax on mail orders DO report and pay it and for the reason that you stated PLUS the fact that if they didn't, they would not be able to do business in "North Dakota" legally. i.e., they could not obtain the permits, licenses, etc., that they need to have, in order to "set up shop".

I hope that this helps to "get it straight" in your mind. If you have additional questions concerning this subject, feel free to ask.