Found for 800 on Craigslist, a good deal?

[hollowch]

I'm brand new to Shopsmith and woodworking and came across this listing on Craigslist. The guy said it was made in the 70s and that the previous owners didn't take too good of care of it. The surfaces were refinished, and the power station and the bandsaw were both refurbished. Apparently the power station used to have some issues where the speed wouldn't change, but now everything works and is fully functional. Here are some pictures and what comes with the sale if I accept. I would really love a second opinion on this. Fair deal? Smart buy?

-planer
-drum sander
-bandsaw
-table saw
-drill press/overhead router
-belt sander
-lathe

[hollowch]

Here's a couple more pictures I took when I went to go check it out.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h233/ ... 120459.jpg
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h233/ ... 120448.jpg
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h233/ ... 120441.jpg
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h233/ ... 120505.jpg

[gat_76]

http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/showthread.htm?t=7644



http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/showthread.htm?t=7644

here is the thread on the rebuild.

[algale]

Welcome to the forum.

Whether that's a good deal depends in no small part on where you are and what the market is like in your area. In my area that's probably a so so deal as newer machines (510s and 520s) with one or two of the separate power tools, like the band saw and the belt sander, do turn up at that price point.

The speed changer problem is not unusual and is usually caused by the uninitiated violating RULE No. 1, which is NEVER TURN THE SPEED DIAL UNLESS THE QUILL IS BEING SPUN (either by the motor or by hand turning a sanding disc attached to the quill). If the person who did the repair understands Shopsmiths, it shouldn't cause any lasting issues BUT if it were me I'd make the owner plug it in and run it up and down to prove the speed changer is working properly.

By the way that's a jointer/planer not the thicknesser/planer. Both are useful but the thicknesser/planer is the more expensive accessory of the two.

Ask questions and you will get answers here.

Al

[pieceseeker]

Not too bad! I just acquired mine about a month ago, and busy with some teardown and cleanup.

I snagged mine for $900 and it had all of that stuff plus a planer on a power station and lot of saw blades,bandsaw blades, dado blades, shapers, router bits, all the manuals...just a lot of extra woodworking incidentals.

I did have to travel 300 miles to pick mine up though.

BTW, its not a planer, its called a jointer and what you called the power station is really called the "headstock"

I am having fun learning about mine, and this forum is absolutely essential to that ShopSmith education!

You can always offer them much less, they can only say no. The one I snagged was listed for $1250, offered $900 and he accepted. Made me wonder if I could have offered less.

Hope you'll have as much fun as I am!

[henecle]

A lot depends on where you are located... some parts of the country have more inventory of used SS than others. In my area, I wouldn't pay that much for the base Mark V 500 in that condition even with the SPTs listed (11" Bandsaw, 4" Jointer and 6" Belt Sander). After you get them cleaned up, lubricated, and aligned properly to SS standards, you'll still need to perform several upgrades which will increase your total costs (ask me how I know ). I'm sure others here may have differing views... if you're mechanically inclined and have the necessary tools, it's all doable. There are better deals to be had out there if you watch for them.

Most of my SPTs were still in their factory boxes when I purchased them from the original owner's widow. Sad to say that you don't always win if you have the most tools...

[saminmn]

Some things I don't see in the pictures are: rip fence; drill chuck/key; turning chisels, drive center and cup center; owners manuals for Mark V, band saw, jointer, or belt sander; and Self study course. I think these are all things that come with a new SS. None of them are show stoppers, but if they aren't part of the deal, you might use them as negotiating points.

I don't know where you are, but for that price I would not be overly enthused. Your basic MKV 500 well used is $300 max here in MN. The special purpose tools (SPTs) in your deal add some. I would start warming to the deal at $600-700.

But, I know others in the area would still consider it a little high for even well maintained equipment. Might be the difference between wanting to get going with a first machine and wanting a second or third machine to use in some semi-dedicated mode, like sanding station or drill press. For these later machines, one can wait on a super great deal.

[donalexander]

It appears the planer you're referring to is a jointer. There's a difference in what they do and what they're worth. Other than that the equipment looks okay but I think $800 is a bit high. $650 would be as high as I would consider going based on what I've seen and I'd be more comfortable at $500.

After examining the tools carefully, my opening offer would not exceed $500 and I wouldn't be quick to raise the offer, even if everything looked decent (but I probably would eventually raise the offer).

I may be cheap, but Mark V's go from $200 to $600, depending on condition and what comes with them. Abused ones can be regularly found in my area (mid Atlantic) for $200-$300 asking price. There are 3 or 4 of them for sale now and I'd bet I could get one of them for well under the asking price. The special purpose tools are worth about $100 to a max of $150 in good condition...I think yours are going to be on the low end.

So, worst case I've laid out would be $500 (asking) and best case would be 1050 (again asking). $800 is not way out of line but consider it an asking price and go look, listen, examine, ask questions. Don't, under any circumstances ask, "Will you take less" or "Are your firm on the price?" There a 50% chance he'll tell you his bottom line without you asking. I'm always surprised by sellers who do this. I loved the guy who told me, "Well I won't go below $500" and he was selling a 510 and bandsaw in decent shape plus a fair number of non SS wood tools. If your seller has any savvy, he knows his bottom line and is waiting for you to make an offer. Expect a counter and don't be quick to agree - it's your cash. Wait for him to come down.

I've bought and sold SS equipment on Craigslist and there's nothing that will help you more than patience. In my opinion, the Mark V is a great piece of woodworking equipment that will do what most of us want - but it's not about what a great piece of equipment it is. It's about supply and demand and the used SS market is a buyers market in most areas. If this guy wouldn't budge, I'd leave my phone number and an offer and ask him to call if he changes his mind.

Shopsmith buyers are rarer than Shopsmith sellers. A buyer with cash is worth more than any number of callers.

One last thought - the belt sander is a bit rarer. You don't see those too often.

That's my opinion. ....and if you spend $800 on the tools, well, you'll have a lot for your money. A lot of ads would ask $1,800 or more...they're dreaming. All the same, at $600 or less, pat yourself on the back for your haul.

[donalexander]

Saminmn raises a good point about missing items. The rip fence is essential and it's $161 + S&H. The lathe drive is $32 as I recall. The chisel sets start around $75 for the 5 piece set, again by memory. What seems to be missing now will exceed $300 to replace. The missing parts will add up quickly.

[db5]

Here's a key point to buying something that is expensive on Craigslist (locally):

Have a written contract that includes everything that is being sold and the condition that it is is. You can prepare this in advance and leave several lines to be filled in for the details. Include pictures of what was shown on Craigslist and be prepared to take your own when you see it for documentation.

NEVER let the seller demo things to you. You should do it yourself because the seller knows how to mask problems. NEVER let the seller demo anything for you. He can show it to you and explain it but NEVER let him demo it.

In casual conversation ask where the seller is employed; e.g., "So, what do you do in real life?" With more questions until you know where this person works (or doesn't). This will be useful later if there is a problem. After a small claims judgment you can garnish wages.

Have a space at the bottom for the sellers address - phone number (you can get this when you reply and ask for it) - driver's ID number (which you ask for before paying cash - no DL # no cash - and automobile license plate number (most of this is easily observable when you go to inspect the equipment). Make a note of any discrepancies and take pictures of any problems. These can be used to negotiate the price downward.

After you have agreed to the price (AFTER, NOT BEFORE) present the document to be signed. Honest and semi-honest people will sign the document. Crooks will refuse, so walk away.

When you get home if everything is not as was advertised contact the seller with the problem and ask for a resolution. Most will refuse or hang up. Be prepared to go to small claims court. You have everything you need to proceed and can let the seller know that you will do so if a satisfactory resolution is not reached.

When the seller doesn't appear in court and you have the contract and documentation you have everything you need to collect by having his wages garnished. Cost to you - Nothing.

Craigslist is increasingly becoming a place for scamers to rip-off people. It is still a good place to buy and sell, but beware and be prepared.