How many are able to work in your shop this month?

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algale
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Post by algale »

JPG40504 wrote:More nebulous inferences. This time from the right!:eek:


Well never fear, the bureaucracy has ground to a halt. Only 'necessary' 'services' are operating.

With any luck only 'necessary' services will be restored!
As one member of this forum who also happens to be one of the "unnecessary" bureaucratic service providers currently on furlough, I respectfully hope you are wrong, Red.

As much as I am enjoying the extended shop time caused by the furlough, I would really like to get back to my unnecessary job so I can save some more taxpayer money.
http://www.pubklaw.com/rd/courts/3-99-cv-093-1.pdf
http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2013/June/13-civ-696.html
http://www.law360.com/articles/454619/u ... e-fca-suit
Sorry, the last one may require a subscription to read the entire article.
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JPG
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Post by JPG »

algale wrote:As one member of this forum who also happens to be one of the "unnecessary" bureaucratic service providers currently on furlough, I respectfully hope you are wrong, Red.

As much as I am enjoying the extended shop time caused by the furlough, I would really like to get back to my unnecessary job so I can save some more taxpayer money.
http://www.pubklaw.com/rd/courts/3-99-cv-093-1.pdf
http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2013/June/13-civ-696.html
http://www.law360.com/articles/454619/utc-s-judgment-upped-to-664m-in-jet-engine-fca-suit
Sorry, the last one may require a subscription to read the entire article.
Nothing 'personal' intended. Was also a gross overstatement. I think the current threshold of 'necessary' is too high. There are many things not 'necessary', but quite advantageous to have!:)

Truth be told Social Security(et all), Medicare(et all) and much other stuff is unnecessary from a 'governing' perspective. Problem is folks have come to depend upon them. O C is next!
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davebodner
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Post by davebodner »

Dickg1,

I wasn't overlooking anything. I agree we have long-term debt problems that need to be addressed. I was just trying to address one specific piece of misinformation.

And I doubt it was LBJ who started borrowing from SS. SS has generated surpluses since it started in the '30s. They weren't just going to stick that cash in a mattress--or in a bank vault. It was always invested in government bonds. If they had invested the surpluses in commercial securities (like stocks), can you imagine the heat they would've gotten, that the Government was buying up the stock market?
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Post by davebodner »

Ed in Tampa wrote:Why is this right wing anger why isn't it the anger of every American? Does anyone believe there is a way out of this mess?
There are ways out of the mess. Folks who have taken the time to run the numbers have come up with several different ways, each of which applies pain to different portions of society. Pick your favorite. The real question is why we haven't been able to settle on one.
Ed in Tampa wrote:You say the numbers don't support my assertion. I will be first to agree. That is because the numbers are generated by politicians for people stupid enough to elect those politicians.
They're not generated by politicians. They're generated by career staff. If you have better numbers, I'd like to see your source.
Ed in Tampa wrote:Example the interest paid on this "loan" is artificially low. Why? Because if the interest wasn't being kept low the mess would look worst than it does. Unfortunately the method to keep the interest low is making a bigger mess.
No again. If you clicked my earlier link, you'd see that the interest is set by the market for government bonds.
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Ed in Tampa
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Post by Ed in Tampa »

davebodner wrote:There are ways out of the mess. Folks who have taken the time to run the numbers have come up with several different ways, each of which applies pain to different portions of society. Pick your favorite. The real question is why we haven't been able to settle on one.

They're not generated by politicians. They're generated by career staff. If you have better numbers, I'd like to see your source.

No again. If you clicked my earlier link, you'd see that the interest is set by the market for government bonds.

I would like to hear one of those ways. So far everyone has said the they have a plan and it isn't pretty and therefore to make us all sleep better they won't tell it to us. Have you heard of one plan that has a chance of working?

Career staff????? Not to be insulting but you are kidding aren't you???
The definition for Career Political Staff is - People that have learned to wordsmith and/or turn out numbers that make the politician/political party that is paying them look good.

What drives that market the sets the interest up and down? If you say anything other Federal Reserve which is admittedly keeping interest down you should let us know about it.

Well at least I 'm now beginning to understand how people with the lack of qualifications and integrity seen in people presently in the Government get elected and/or hired.
Ed in Tampa
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davebodner
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Post by davebodner »

Ed in Tampa wrote:I would like to hear one of those ways. So far everyone has said the they have a plan and it isn't pretty and therefore to make us all sleep better they won't tell it to us. Have you heard of one plan that has a chance of working?
Domenici-Rivlin and Simpson-Bowles are two of the biggies.
Ed in Tampa wrote:Career staff????? Not to be insulting but you are kidding aren't you???
The definition for Career Political Staff is - People that have learned to wordsmith and/or turn out numbers that make the politician/political party that is paying them look good.
I didn't say Career Political Staff, but I'll try to be clearer. You're talking about the people who work in the White House or on Capitol Hill--or want to. Those people don't create the numbers we're talking about. I'm talking about your basic, boring bureaucrat without any political connection. Again, if you have better numbers, let's see the source.
Ed in Tampa wrote:What drives that market the sets the interest up and down? If you say anything other Federal Reserve which is admittedly keeping interest down you should let us know about it.
You're confusing borrowing and lending, and the difference between the Federal Reserve and the US Treasury. The Fed has been holding down the rate it charges banks when the banks borrow overnight from the Fed. If that goes on too long, they may drive up inflation, which will increase what the Treasury has to pay when it borrows money (i.e. issues bonds and T-bills) on the open market. T-bills and bonds are sold in an auction-type scenario. It's entirely subject to the free market.

Well at least I 'm now beginning to understand how people with the lack of qualifications and integrity seen in people presently in the Government get elected and/or hired.[/QUOTE]I'm not sure if this is meant as a dig at me. For now I'll assume it isn't.
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Ed in Tampa
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Post by Ed in Tampa »

davebodner wrote:Domenici-Rivlin and Simpson-Bowles are two of the biggies.

I didn't say Career Political Staff, but I'll try to be clearer. You're talking about the people who work in the White House or on Capitol Hill--or want to. Those people don't create the numbers we're talking about. I'm talking about your basic, boring bureaucrat without any political connection. Again, if you have better numbers, let's see the source.

You're confusing borrowing and lending, and the difference between the Federal Reserve and the US Treasury. The Fed has been holding down the rate it charges banks when the banks borrow overnight from the Fed. If that goes on too long, they may drive up inflation, which will increase what the Treasury has to pay when it borrows money (i.e. issues bonds and T-bills) on the open market. T-bills and bonds are sold in an auction-type scenario. It's entirely subject to the free market.

Well at least I 'm now beginning to understand how people with the lack of qualifications and integrity seen in people presently in the Government get elected and/or hired.
I'm not sure if this is meant as a dig at me. For now I'll assume it isn't.[/QUOTE]

I looked at both plans and it seems to me the raise the tax for the individual and lower corporate tax. They reduce Health care funding but demand more health care and they do little of anything to curb or even explain why we are spending tons of money sailing fleets around the world.

Let us see a plan that pulls our millitary back to 250 mile radius of this country, ends foreign aid, reduces Congress cost by a factor of 50% and ends all federal aid to corporations, projects and charities.

I'm was talking about the same boring bureaucrates as you, don't you believe they have learned to anticipate what the requester is going to ask for and that they are smart enough to supply the answers to him that make him look good?

If the market is artificially manipulated it is artificially manipulated.
Basic free market says lower demand lower prices, higher demand higher prices. What has happened since 2008 demand for most products has fallen but prices have going up. Imagine that.
Car companies claimed they could not give a car away, yet I spent 2 years finding one that would even begin to make a deal.

Banks are given Fed money to loan, instead they bought more land and built more banks. They offer no interest on savings but charge interest and "costs" that make the loans carry extraordinary costs compared to the interest paid on the money they got to make the loans.

That same effect is seen in the interest paid on these bonds. The artifical manipulation of the this economy has kept they interest rates low.

And no that comment was not about you unless you fit into the group that thinks the president and congress is doing what is right for this country.
Ed in Tampa
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keakap
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Post by keakap »

algale wrote:As one member of this forum who also happens to be one of the "unnecessary" bureaucratic service providers currently on furlough, I respectfully hope you are wrong, Red.

As much as I am enjoying the extended shop time caused by the furlough, I would really like to get back to my unnecessary job so I can save some more taxpayer money.
[url]
Alas, so many people still don't know what "federal money" is or from whence it comes.

I know for us over the years there have been some tough times, money short, outlays ever present, economies stagnant (see "Democrat administrations"), but what we always do is make sure we are putting most of our money into fed taxes, socialist welfare programs and unneccessary things. After all, as obama tells us, we only earned it, we have no right to choose how to spend it.
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Post by keakap »

davebodner wrote:Dickg1,

... It was always invested in government bonds. ...
Minor correction: not real bonds but gov't - to - gov't I.O.U.s, absolutely valueless except for propaganda.
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davebodner
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Post by davebodner »

keakap wrote:Minor correction: not real bonds but gov't - to - gov't I.O.U.s, absolutely valueless except for propaganda.
I'd be interested in following the trail of logic leading to this.
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