Joining outdoor furniture

friscomike · Post by **friscomike** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:14 am

Howdy folks,

My first big project on my new Shopsmith will be a potting bench and storage cabinet for my wife's outdoor activities (hey, she went to the TA sessions with me and kept an inventory of what tools, SPTs, etc that I needed to buy. It is the least I could do for her :-) ).

The bench will set on the back porch under a roof, but open to the outdoors. The planning dimensions are seven feet wide and a three feet or so deep. Cubby hole bins will set on top of the bench against the wall. A dirt dump and storage shelves are the plan for the bottom.

Western red cedar is the primary wood. My fist question is what type of joinery should I use to build the table? Currently, I am thinking of using tenons to tie the base together. Since the bench will be outdoors, I suspect there will be quite a bit of expansion and contraction. The expansion makes me wonder if gluing up nice tight tenons would work well in the long run. I would rather not have any metal (bolts, screws, etc) showing anywhere.

What have other folks used?

Best Regards,
mike

paulmcohen · Post by **paulmcohen** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:36 am

When I made a planter out of Western Red Cedar I assembled it with stainless steel screws countersunk into the wood and then plugged. I used a plug cutter to make the plugs out of the scrap pieces of the material and installed them cross grain to they contrast. It looks very good and have been sitting uncovered outside in the Oregon rain for several years now and still looks almost new except for the bottom of the legs where they is some visible wear.

If I did something like this again I would wither coat the bottom of the feet with epoxy or put stainless metal buttons on the bottom to keep the feet off the ground.

brown_hawk · Post by **brown_hawk** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:46 am

Expansion goes along the grain, so do some planning so that as many joints as possible have the grain running the same way. (Look at the end of the board. If the grain runs vertical to the face, the board thickness will increase, if it runs horizontal to the face, the board width will increase.) Non grain shrinking and expanding is negligable compared to grain expansion.)

If it is sheltered from rain, etc., a good outdoor glue should work well. Tenons will do nicely, just remember to make sure that they are clean and flat to get the most wood to wood contact.

Another possibility is through tenons with a dowel. (Can't remember the name of the joint, sorry.) This might also give the ability to disassemble the stand for storage part of the year (or moving).

Either one of the tenons should work well. Given a well built project, protected from the sun and wet/dry cycling, it shouldn't be a problem.

Hawk

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:36 pm

From Woodworking Wisdom by Nick Engler. Mr. Engler also wrote Outdoor Furniture, Outdoor Structures, and Benches, Swings, and Gliders.

[ATTACH]1308[/ATTACH]

With all good wishes,

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:42 pm

"Another possibility is through tenons with a dowel. (Can't remember the name of the joint, sorry.)"

A locked mortise-and-tenon joint. See http://www.shopsmithacademy.com/SS_Arch ... Tenons.htm

With all good wishes,

brown_hawk · Post by **brown_hawk** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:52 pm

Nick wrote:"Another possibility is through tenons with a dowel. (Can't remember the name of the joint, sorry.)"

A locked mortise-and-tenon joint. See http://www.shopsmithacademy.com/SS_Arch ... Tenons.htm

With all good wishes,

Thanks Nick! And in keeping with Mr. Engler's quoted work above, I was recommending them for a bench protected from the rain! (Totally by accident, but even a broken watch is right twice a day.

)

Hawk

friscomike · Post by **friscomike** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:20 pm

Howdy all of ya'll,

Thanks for all the helpful comments. Not sure who this Nick guy is, but today the mail person delivered a copy of his book: Woodworking Wisdom.

Uh, just kidding Nick.

I have been searching out your books and slowly but surely, finding them.

Best Regards,
mike

rdewinter · Post by **rdewinter** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:00 am

Frisco
Nick's comments are right on. You want joints that don't have the possibility of collecting water. Water collected in a joint today means a rotted joint tomorrow. Keep the design so the entire piece can shed water and dry out. A good square butt joint glued with yellow outdoor glue will be a good way to go. If you use screws to join pieces don't counter sink because water can collect in the recess and lead to rot. I learned that the hard way. I like to use redwood for outdoor furniture however, it is very soft but easy to work. The downside-- my yellow lab did chew up (read ate) a very nice contoured Adirondack chair!!!

Bob
San Diego

friscomike · Post by **friscomike** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:27 am

Howdy,

This thread has really changed my design and construction approach; thanks to all who commented. Think I'll read a bit more before I begin...

Bob, I like the idea of using non-rusting bolts in countersunk holes sealed with a plug. Think the holes could collect water if sealed with a plug?

Online forums and magazines have presented reviews of water resistent glues. Unfortunately, the reviews conflict with each other so I am still confused about the best water resistent glue. anyone have first hand experience with water resistent glues and outdoor furniture?

Best Regards,
mike

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:49 am

Mike
I think if you use a tight fitting plug water getting in the holes won't be much of a problem. If your really concerned use Resorcinol Waterproof Glue made by Dap
http://www.dap.com/product_details.aspx?product_id=43

If you watch Dave Marks on Woodworks on the DIY channel this is the glue he often uses for any project that might come into contact with water.
Ed