1983 Shopsmith MV510

tjg79 · Post by **tjg79** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:44 pm

Hi, I'm considering buying a used Shopsmith that appears lightly used.

It comes with a dust collector, planner, bandsaw, jointer, and molding kit.

What is a reasonable value for this machine and are there any issues related to its age?

The machine is over thirty years old. Does any wiring, belts or bearings need to be replaced. What would it take to put this machine in working condition?

Regards to all.

beeg · Post by **beeg** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:02 am

I bought mine new in 1980, still running strong. The value depends mostly on location. To put it working condition all ya need to do is wax it, clean it up, lube it, then align it.

tjg79 · Post by **tjg79** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:06 am

Thanks Bob,

Do you know a good price range for the machine described?

What did they sell for back in 1983?

Regards

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:09 am

tjg79 wrote:Hi, I'm considering buying a used Shopsmith that appears lightly used.

It comes with a dust collector, planner, bandsaw, jointer, and molding kit.

What is a reasonable value for this machine and are there any issues related to its age?

The machine is over thirty years old. Does any wiring, belts or bearings need to be replaced. What would it take to put this machine in working condition?

Regards to all.

It is a youngster.

Age is less important than the care it has received.

Is it not currently in 'working condition'?

We can tell you what to do before using it if you purchase it.(Beeg summarized that)

As for what it is worth, a few pix so we can possibly ascertain its condition would be needed to guess as to its 'value'.

Also there are many 'standard' things that come included when new. Pix could help us determine what might be 'missing'.

Is the planer a SS mount or on a stand?

Sight unseen, a $ number is SWAG.

tjg79 · Post by **tjg79** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:26 am

I don't have any pictures yet. It's described as perfect condition. But, it's also described as fairly new with a 1983 serial number.

I don't have a lot of confidence in the description due to the inconsistency noted.

Some people will say anything to try to sell.

I presume it's lightly used with no rust. I'll also assume it's complete. It remains to be determined if it will meet my expectations.

I'm wondering what a reasonable price would be assuming it meets my expectations and I need to make an offer.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:45 am

tjg79 wrote:I don't have any pictures yet. It's described as perfect condition. But, it's also described as fairly new with a 1983 serial number.

I don't have a lot of confidence in the description due to the inconsistency noted.

Some people will say anything to try to sell.

I presume it's lightly used with no rust. I'll also assume it's complete. It remains to be determined if it will meet my expectations.

I'm wondering what a reasonable price would be assuming it meets my expectations and I need to make an offer.

Considering Shopsmiths go back past the middle of the last century, fairly new is not an unreasonable thing to say for something 30 yrs old.

FWIW, a 1983 vintage will have a single bearing quill(upgradable).

Another thing is there are different 'versions' that have differing tables and rip fences etc.. The variations are '500','505','510',520'. Those are listed in increasing 'desirability'. If it is not gray in color, it is much older. That is one reason why pix are important to us. There are two sub versions of a 510, and 1983 would be an earlier version.

Adding to possible confusion, is that any of those versions can be upgraded to any of the more desirable ones. i.e. a '500' originally may be upgraded to any of the other three(505,510,520). That is also true of the older non-gray models(Mark 5 Greenies, Goldies). FWIW there are two versions of each of those also. There were also gray Mark 5s.

P.S. Welcome to the Forum. Ask ANY question, we will try to answer it correctly

P.P.S. I just noticed your initial post said 510, so ignore the excess info.

reible · Post by **reible** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:11 am

Hi and welcome to the forum.

This question is pretty hard to answer. I'm assuming you would like to be as informed as you can be as a buyer. You might want to visit the shopsmith.com site and make sure you understand the differences between models, 500, 505, 510, and 520. See here:

http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/faq/markv.htm

One note of interest here is the fact that the first 510's started in 1985. So if the date is correct then this started life as a 500 and was upgraded to a 510.

Farther down the page is a table "How old is it" and you can check the numbers (serial numbers are located on the left side of the headstock either on the vent plate or on a red/white sticker).

Next would be to find a list of "standard" things that should come with the machine and make a list of that. I don't have a list for that period but if you use the current list it will be close. These missing parts can add up to a good deal of money if they are missing.

The condition of the machine can and will vary depending on previous owner(s). If it has been maintained well then it might be as simple as taking it home and using it. As has been mentioned it would be a good idea to clean it and wax and lub it first then do an alignment.

If it wasn't taken care of then it is any ones guess how much work and or parts in might need. Some parts will be reasonable others could be rather costly to replace. We have no way of knowing this, so it will be a judgement call on your part. The good news is you can do a lot to all of the work yourself and for the most part you can get the parts from shopsmith.......... 1983 is still pretty much a 1993 is pretty much a 2003 etc. Upgrades are also possible, like the new powerpro headstock....

The machine it self give it is in really good condition and has close to all its parts and if seems to run and change speeds (caution: do not turn the speed dial unless the machine is turning(running). A few questions on the maintenance from the owner can show if he has done any or just used it and used it and used it, a bad sign.

Location then determines a lot. Here where I live the prices are much higher then in other places. For me I'd say if it is really in great condition you might expect to pay $500 or perhaps more. Other places, other prices.

The list of "extras" is impressive. A lot like that is going to go for over a $1000 here as long as it all working. If it is all in really good condition then it might go for as much as $1400.

Now I'm only speaking to my area, if this were on the market for $1500 it would be a good deal. Others can give you ball park figures for different areas. I mean for $1500 I might even give it a look and I have no room to even put it.....

One thing that might help is providing your location in your profile. People here go out of there way to help others so it is quite possible a member might be able to go with you to see the machine and have a look at it. They might spot things and give you an idea of its true condition etc.

So with this I'll say good luck,

Ed

tjg79 wrote:Hi, I'm considering buying a used Shopsmith that appears lightly used.

It comes with a dust collector, planner, bandsaw, jointer, and molding kit.

What is a reasonable value for this machine and are there any issues related to its age?

The machine is over thirty years old. Does any wiring, belts or bearings need to be replaced. What would it take to put this machine in working condition?

Regards to all.

tjg79 · Post by **tjg79** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:13 am

Based on my experience with machine tools, old machine tools sell for a fraction of the price of a new machine. That applies to excellent condition to near mint old machine tools such as lathe's, mills and surface grinders.

I'm thinking an excellent condition 1983 Shopsmith Mark V Model 510 would be worth about 10% of the cost of buying a new one (2014 Mark V Model 520).

Am I thinking correctly?

Regards

tjg79 · Post by **tjg79** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:31 am

reible wrote: One note of interest here is the fact that the first 510's started in 1985. So if the date is correct then this started life as a 500 and was upgraded to a 510.

Thanks for that information. That is very helpful. I suspect this is a Model 500 that was upgraded to a Model 510 sometime before the current owner. He indicated the machine is equipped with a 1-1/8 HP 13.5 Amp motor and double quill. He indicated that it's probably 1985 vintage, but the serial is 1983. So, I now suspect it's a 1983 model upgraded with model 1985 parts.

I'm still wondering what a fair price would be. Considering the availability of used Shopsmiths, I don't see paying a top price for a 30-year old machine, because they pop-up all the time.

I'll likely have to do a detailed inspection and then determine the cost of upgrading to a complete Model 520 level. So, now the question is what would a Model 500, upgraded to 510 and then newly upgraded to 520 be worth? The cost of the upgrade plus the cost of the used machine shouldn't exceed the value of a two time upgrade to 520 for a thirty-year-old base machine. The accessories will likely need some parts due to age as well.

Regards

reible · Post by **reible** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:36 am

If were to look at prices today a 510 is $3379. The collection of major tools listed is worth $2980. Grand total of $6359.

10% = $636
20% = $1272
30% = $1908
40% = $2544

I'd say 30% would be about right.

Ed

tjg79 wrote:Based on my experience with machine tools, old machine tools sell for a fraction of the price of a new machine. That applies to excellent condition to near mint old machine tools such as lathe's, mills and surface grinders.

I'm thinking an excellent condition 1983 Shopsmith Mark V Model 510 would be worth about 10% of the cost of buying a new one (2014 Mark V Model 520).

Am I thinking correctly?

Regards