Tony Mann (Backhertz) Visit

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billmayo
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Tony Mann (Backhertz) Visit

Post by billmayo »

I was blessed to have Tony Mann visit with me this past Monday and Tuesday. Tony stopped by to help determine why I was having problem with getting any Shopsmith motors to operate for the past 2 years. I have 2 AO Smith 3/4HP motors, a Mark VII GE 1 1/8 HP motor and 2 Emerson motors that I could not get to operate. The first 3 motors use a start relay in place of a centrifugal switch. After rechecking a run and start winding ohm readings with no shorts again, all within normal readings. We found no reason why these motors should not operate, but they only hum, not even a tune I know. We swapped current relays and capacitors without success. Since I have 5 more AO Smith ¾ HP motors that had not been tested, we started with them. All 5 motors operated with no problems. So we used one of the motors to test 12 start relays which all 12 worked along with about 6 capacitors. I have 5 more of the Mark VII 1 1/8 HP motors that were not tested. Each of these motors operated with no problems.

We did confirm that the Mark VII motors were operating at reduced power. All 6 motors used a start winding and a run winding in parallel with the other run winding being used as the start circuit. Since the start winding has 3 to 4 times more resistance, I would believe it would use 3 to 4 times less amps. So if each run winding uses 6 amp, the start winding would use only 2 amp. So I see the motor getting 6 + 2 Amps of power to run the motor vs 6 + 6 Amps if both run windings are being in parallel to run the motor.

So I had a series of five motors in a row that all readings are good but would not operate over a 2 year period. The 2 Emerson motors doing the same thing but we did not get to them. Therefore I had believed I was doing something wrong with these motors so I gave up wanting to convert these AO Smith ¾ HP motors or any other motors for reverse operation when I could not get them to operate in the normal mode.

I will be happy to mail one of the non-operating AO Smith 3/4 HP motors to anyone who wants to try to find what is wrong and tell me. You can keep the motor as it is worthless to me right now.

We did find time to build a belt sander from a few boxes of parts I had laying around. I have plenty of extra belt sander parts if anyone has a need, It was a very enjoyable time that we spent together again. The visit option is still open to anyone wanting to stop by and play in my shop.
Bill Mayo bill.mayo@verizon.net
Shopsmith owner since 73. Sell, repair and rebuild Shopsmith, Total Shop & Wood Master headstocks, SPTs, attachments, accessories and parts. US Navy 1955-1975 (FTCS/E-8)
cooch366
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Thanks

Post by cooch366 »

I appreciated your time on my recent visit Bill.

Many thanks.... Steve
teacherman
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Need a "like" button

Post by teacherman »

billmayo wrote:I was blessed to have Tony Mann visit with me this past Monday and Tuesday. Tony stopped by to help determine why I was having problem with getting any Shopsmith motors to operate for the past 2 years. I have 2 AO Smith 3/4HP motors, a Mark VII GE 1 1/8 HP motor and 2 Emerson motors that I could not get to operate. The first 3 motors use a start relay in place of a centrifugal switch. After rechecking a run and start winding ohm readings with no shorts again, all within normal readings. We found no reason why these motors should not operate, but they only hum, not even a tune I know. We swapped current relays and capacitors without success. Since I have 5 more AO Smith ¾ HP motors that had not been tested, we started with them. All 5 motors operated with no problems. So we used one of the motors to test 12 start relays which all 12 worked along with about 6 capacitors. I have 5 more of the Mark VII 1 1/8 HP motors that were not tested. Each of these motors operated with no problems.

We did confirm that the Mark VII motors were operating at reduced power. All 6 motors used a start winding and a run winding in parallel with the other run winding being used as the start circuit. Since the start winding has 3 to 4 times more resistance, I would believe it would use 3 to 4 times less amps. So if each run winding uses 6 amp, the start winding would use only 2 amp. So I see the motor getting 6 + 2 Amps of power to run the motor vs 6 + 6 Amps if both run windings are being in parallel to run the motor.

So I had a series of five motors in a row that all readings are good but would not operate over a 2 year period. The 2 Emerson motors doing the same thing but we did not get to them. Therefore I had believed I was doing something wrong with these motors so I gave up wanting to convert these AO Smith ¾ HP motors or any other motors for reverse operation when I could not get them to operate in the normal mode.

I will be happy to mail one of the non-operating AO Smith 3/4 HP motors to anyone who wants to try to find what is wrong and tell me. You can keep the motor as it is worthless to me right now.

We did find time to build a belt sander from a few boxes of parts I had laying around. I have plenty of extra belt sander parts if anyone has a need, It was a very enjoyable time that we spent together again. The visit option is still open to anyone wanting to stop by and play in my shop.
I wish there were a way to "like" a post. People spending time working together to figure out how to resurrect old machines, whether they be chainsaws, motorcycles, or Shopsmiths, is one thread holding what's left of our culture together. Finding and fixing a short in the field windings is a couple notches above my pay grade.
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joshh
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Post by joshh »

I really wish I could work out a trip to see Bill. Better yet, I wish I lived in Florida :D
- 1986 Mark V 500 Mini

- 1985 Mark V 510 with reversible motor, bandsaw, jointer, and double-tilt.

I offer quality motor reversal, rebuilding, and rewiring. Contact me at HarbourTools@live.com
backhertz
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Enjoy Fun? Learning? Laughing?

Post by backhertz »

Then I recommend contacting Bill Mayo and figure out a time to visit with him and Ann. Then be prepared to learn the way Bill does things with the Shopsmith. Over the years I've stopped by Bill's place for a day. Now I might stay a couple of days. We don't do any wood working; just working on the Shopsmith and the SPTs.

Bill has shared with me secrets that few may know about the Mark V and methods he's developed to make the Mark V operate better than new. He just doesn't address problem areas, but rather he will totally overhaul a headstock to operate as it was designed or even better. He replaces not one or two bearings, but all the bearings in the headstock with higher quality bearings than the factory uses- just because. It costs a few extra dollars, but in all the years he's been overhauling Shopsmiths, he's never has one come back. He does things with the quadrant assy you will not find in any book or video.

If you are expecting to see a shop that has floor clean enough to eat off of, then you'll be a little surprised. Bill probably has more parts for Shopsmiths than one might find today on Poe Ave. Last year, a gentlemen came down with a large pickup truck hauling a huge trailer and left with the pickup truck bed & the trailer completely full of all of Bill's older model Shopsmiths. So he has a little more room.

Last year when I visited, Bill had 3 projects for me. Rewiring a headstock motor to install a forward/reverse switch, aligning a jointer, and replacing the tires on a bandsaw. Having spent most of my life in/around electricity/electronics, the motor reversal was just applying some common sense now that I think of it. Bill worked rebuilding motors back in one of his lifetimes. It's just a matter of locating the start & run windings and then making a few changes. Bill was also a master machinist in the Navy and brings that skill set to improving the Shopsmith.

Little did I know that when we were to work on the bandsaw or the jointer, he'd first make me assemble them out of separate parts. There was nothing preassembled. I really learned a lot that trip.

This trip we focused on motors and checking out current relays & capacitors. He has many. This was followed by the assembly of a belt sander. The belt sander disassembled looks absolutely nothing like it does all assembled. He had one he picked up used which is currently on the floor. It appeared to have been assembled without a brass bushing & was used for many years as indicated by the wear where the sanding belt rubbed. I think it was part of a 'Brownie' made in the early 60's. It's amazing it worked at all.

I believe Bill & Ann might make a fortune if they rented out a room and charged for the Shopsmith knowledge he seems to have all stored up in his head and is willing to share. Bill never refers to a parts breakdown. But when he's assembling something, he's nice enough to print one out for me, but once we get going, it's really not needed.

Bill & I share a little background in ancient computer systems. He went onto be a programmer and as probably forgotten more about computers than I ever learned myself. I went a different direction. Anyhow he makes everything seem easy and he has a gift of being able to look at almost anything and figuring out how to improve it.

I would be remiss if I didn't mention their rescue Akita, Takara. This poor puppy was shot & as a result lost her right front leg. But that doesn't stop her. She loves to play- once she gets to know you. He also has a new addition: a shop cat.

Bill is what someone in Japan might be considered a national treasure. He lives in Plant City, not far from Tampa. If you have a question or desire to learn, be prepared.

Thanks Bill!
One Greenie, Two Mark 7s,Three 510s and much more…
e2512
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Post by e2512 »

I just registered today for the reason of replying to this post.

A few years ago I bought all the 10E and 10ER parts Bill had. I spent the whole day at his house loading a trailer and my SUV. Boy did he have the stuff!

Bill and his wife are incredible people. They invited me into their home, bought me pizza and offered me a bed to sleep in for the night. Their two of the most down home people you'll ever meet. The highest honor I can give them is that they are what America is all about.

If Bills goal in life is to leave a lasting impression on one person in the world he's accomplished that many times over.

My advice to anyone visiting Florida is to drop the wife and kids off at Disney World and go visit Bill. His shop is Disney World for a man!

Thanks for all you've done Bill,
Tom
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JPG
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Post by JPG »

e2512 wrote:I just registered today for the reason of replying to this post.

A few years ago I bought all the 10E and 10ER parts Bill had. I spent the whole day at his house loading a trailer and my SUV. Boy did he have the stuff!

Bill and his wife are incredible people. They invited me into their home, bought me pizza and offered me a bed to sleep in for the night. Their two of the most down home people you'll ever meet. The highest honor I can give them is that they are what America is all about.

If Bills goal in life is to leave a lasting impression on one person in the world he's accomplished that many times over.

My advice to anyone visiting Florida is to drop the wife and kids off at Disney World and go visit Bill. His shop is Disney World for a man!

Thanks for all you've done Bill,
Tom
Yer nick name 'hog'? :D
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╟JPG ╢
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10
E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
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skou
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Post by skou »

I probably shouldn't let the cat out of the bag, but there is a post at the ER forum, that looks a LOT like one here, asking about 4 inch jointer blades.

And, the guy's nickname over there was Hogwinslow.

I've done business with Tom, and he's a stand-up guy!

steve
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JPG
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Post by JPG »

skou wrote:I probably shouldn't let the cat out of the bag, but there is a post at the ER forum, that looks a LOT like one here, asking about 4 inch jointer blades.

And, the guy's nickname over there was Hogwinslow.

I've done business with Tom, and he's a stand-up guy!

steve
Humph! You opened the drawstring a bit more than I!:D
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╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10
E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
e2512
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Post by e2512 »

Yea, that's me. I can't stand the new format of the yahoo groups. I try to stay away from it as much as possible. It's a great place to learn about the early models but navagating around it is really annoying to me.

Tom
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