Help me understand.....

[dgale]

Hard to imagine getting a reducer or increaser unless I find them used cheap, and they seem as though they would be ungainly and sacrifice precision of movement.

Doesn't seem like that happens very often - these always seem to sell for amazingly high prices on E-Bay for a used item, often approaching the cost of a new one. I ultimately decided I liked the versitility of a hand router and router table and was able to get both from Bosch for about $325...not much more than a new speed increaser. I still would like a speed reducer for select lathe work but can bring myself to drop $275 for one, so I make due without.

[dgale]

I think I'll go ahead and keep the Forstner bits and use them. For what it's worth, I'd bet they are way better than Harbor Freight stuff. Heck, Milwaukee power tools are made in China, and they are still highly regarded.

For what it's worth, I do have a set of HF forstner bits and they have proven adequate for my needs to date - no issues with them whatsover and I've used them for a variety of tasks...I think I paid something like $32 for a pretty big set of them. I'm not a big fan of HF but I needed a couple of forstner bits for a task and didn't have the funds to buy the ones I probably would have normally and these so far have seemed to work great. That's something I probably would say about one out of ten HF items.

As far as the SS bits being made in China, other than any disapointment over a desire to support Made in USA items, I probably wouldn't see too much into that. As you noted Milwaukee and virtually all other power tools are made there these days, so being made in China doesn't automatically put something in the HF category. Of course, the original versions of power tools we all have from pre-China days are built way better and much more durable and reliable than the new "China" counterparts. I recently fried my old Makita orbital sander from the Made in Japan days...that thing was rode hard and put away wet hundreds and hundreds of time and never failed me until recently, after 20+ years of steady, hard use. I now have a newer Makita and also a DeWalt version of essentially the same sander...I'm assuming both are made in China and while I expect they will perform well and to a higher standard then I'd suspect I'd see from a HF version, I bet I won't see anywhere near the life span or reliability as my original model. Reminds me of that old Maytag Washer and Dryer set my mother had for 30+ years that never faultered...I consider myself lucky to get 5-10 years out of a modern washer/dryer set now.

[swampgator]

It would be very very sad for this concept, this machine to become a thing only of the past. Each time I go out to the garage and fiddle with this thing I marvel at the elegance of its design, and the versatility of its parts. Realistically, I don't think it's practical to do much routing with it due to its slow max speed, and I really wish it went below 750 rpm for drilling larger holes or doing rough lathe work. Hard to imagine getting a reducer or increaser unless I find them used cheap, and they seem as though they would be ungainly and sacrifice precision of movement. However, I think this tool has opened up the world of woodworking to me, one I've always wanted to explore. With a good bandsaw and a dovetail jig (non-SS) down the road, I can make drawers and all kinds of stuff. I'm glad I discovered the world of SS while it is still functioning. I think I'll go ahead and keep the Forstner bits and use them. For what it's worth, I'd bet they are way better than Harbor Freight stuff. Heck, Milwaukee power tools are made in China, and they are still highly regarded.

All the reason to get either a MK 7 or the PowerPro headstock. Wish I could afford it. Like Doug Reid said, it's not that expensive, but I still can't afford it.

[benush26]

I enjoy the idea that I can look through a manual which is 25 years old, call a phone number, give the person a number from that manual and receive a part. Additionally, the person on the other end of that conversation has been bright, engaging and willing to go to extremes to help.

My only true frustration with Shopsmith is when I order a part through them which I could have purchased locally at a significant savings and no wait time (I try and support local business in my small town) or mail order alternative (aka Amazon, etc.), again much cheaper and often faster.

Some examples, I ordered the remote on/off switch for my DC3300 on sale. When it arrived, I found the exact same item cheaper both locally and from Amazon. I ordered from SS presuming it would be something special which SS had had designed to work with their equipment, but it wasn't the case.
The previous version table vice was available locally (sans sliding T nuts) for less than half SS's sale price. I could have purchase six sliding T nuts with postage for the difference and SS would still have gotten my money.

I do admire Shopsmith for trying to provide nearly everything and I am certain that there are those who truly relish and appreciate the fact that they do not have to search far and wide to get something.

I have no qualms buying good quality merchandise from SS and paying a bit of a premium to ensure i have quality parts and personnel available and access to this forum. However, when 'their' merchandise is not really 'their's' and is available elsewhere, I would appreciate them letting me know of the alternative especially when they don't have it in stock . But that is a small thing compared to the overall scheme.

One thing I 'would' appreciate is a form of online quantity. I do realize that within the description is a disclaimer which says whether or not the item might be needed to be built. How about a quantity available as of some date (even within the last week!) and if something will need to be back ordered, how many more are waiting. I realize for non Shopsmith items like Nova, etc. which have a Shopsmith extra or modification, this may be cumbersome.

The simple fact for me is that I have purchased most of what I will be buying from Shopsmith. I hope for those who will be buying what ever they need from Dayton, that those doors stay open for many decades.

Be well,
Ben

[teacherman]

I enjoy the idea that I can look through a manual which is 25 years old, call a phone number, give the person a number from that manual and receive a part. Additionally, the person on the other end of that conversation has been bright, engaging and willing to go to extremes to help.

My only true frustration with Shopsmith is when I order a part through them which I could have purchased locally at a significant savings and no wait time (I try and support local business in my small town) or mail order alternative (aka Amazon, etc.), again much cheaper and often faster.

Some examples, I ordered the remote on/off switch for my DC3300 on sale. When it arrived, I found the exact same item cheaper both locally and from Amazon. I ordered from SS presuming it would be something special which SS had had designed to work with their equipment, but it wasn't the case.
The previous version table vice was available locally (sans sliding T nuts) for less than half SS's sale price. I could have purchase six sliding T nuts with postage for the difference and SS would still have gotten my money.

I do admire Shopsmith for trying to provide nearly everything and I am certain that there are those who truly relish and appreciate the fact that they do not have to search far and wide to get something.

I have no qualms buying good quality merchandise from SS and paying a bit of a premium to ensure i have quality parts and personnel available and access to this forum. However, when 'their' merchandise is not really 'their's' and is available elsewhere, I would appreciate them letting me know of the alternative especially when they don't have it in stock . But that is a small thing compared to the overall scheme.

One thing I 'would' appreciate is a form of online quantity. I do realize that within the description is a disclaimer which says whether or not the item might be needed to be built. How about a quantity available as of some date (even within the last week!) and if something will need to be back ordered, how many more are waiting. I realize for non Shopsmith items like Nova, etc. which have a Shopsmith extra or modification, this may be cumbersome.

The simple fact for me is that I have purchased most of what I will be buying from Shopsmith. I hope for those who will be buying what ever they need from Dayton, that those doors stay open for many decades.

Be well,
Ben

Well put. I concur. The name Shop Smith has to mean something.

Is the Mark 7 really that much better than the Mark 5?

[rcplaneguy]

The insert, what I thought was a
"table insert assembly," with the IPL picture showing a machined disc with a tightenable retaining tab and a number of rivet holes indicating a likely second piece to stabilize and better anchor the piece to the table, is merely a very rough cut simple aluminum disc that does not even fit into the hole in the table. I get that I can file it down for a snug fit and all, but for 18.99 I could have made my own in ten minutes with some scrap stock if that's all it is.

I have to admit I've wanted a new insert also, but the price has stopped me each time. $18.99 + $6.99 shipping = $25.98 which is a bit more than I can justify.

[swampgator]

Well put. I concur. The name Shop Smith has to mean something.

Is the Mark 7 really that much better than the Mark 5?

Totally agree with the sentiment.

Is the Mark 7 really that much better than the Mark 5? In a word, "yes". The power pro headstock is so much better in performance and speed ranges and is not an energy hog. The double tilt with the tables, the bigger and more table surface, the bigger casters, is all better to me. Saw one at a demonstration just a few days ago and want one of them as much as I wanted a Mark 5 back in the 1970's. The power pro is smoother and quieter than all the sheaves. To upgrade to the same thing would be about $400 less than buying a new one.

[JPG]

Have y'all considered the annual demand for that part? It has to be very small. How long ago was the CI table replaced with the aluminum table?

[charlese]

That reminds me of an analogy Nick Engler put forth several years ago. I won't get it exactly, but the thought is similar.--Think about making a submarine in the 1960s and being required to supply exact repair parts for it in 2014.



I don't know if I could find another company that makes wood working tools that can, or is willing to, find and supply replacement parts for any of their tools 40 years after manufacture. Then there's automobiles - Some classic car part suppliers have made a business of manufacturing after market parts. But there's not many available for a 1950 Packard and others.

[dusty]

That reminds me of an analogy Nick Engler put forth several years ago. I won't get it exactly, but the thought is similar.--Think about making a submarine in the 1960s and being required to supply exact repair parts for it in 2014.



I don't know if I could find another company that makes wood working tools that can, or is willing to, find and supply replacement parts for any of their tools 40 years after manufacture. Then there's automobiles - Some classic car part suppliers have made a business of manufacturing after market parts. But there's not many available for a 1950 Packard and others.

Shopsmith does have an advantage in that the basic design has changed very little over these many years. Excluding the tables, rails and saw guards, what has really undergone major change?

Yes, the headstock but you can't buy spare parts for that even though it is new.