Infeed/Outfeed Tables

[Ed in Tampa]

You need to see the video. I see no purpose in the extension brackets Dusty also has on his table.

Yes, I must see the video~

All the brackets on the Shopsmith table does is allow the user to attach the table to the SS. Sort of in a hinge fashion. The extension bracket was designed to hold the floating tables in a outfeed position and allow spacing for the two tubed one to connect the bracket to the table and one to connect the floating table to the bracket.

True! But used as Dusty has them, they are fixed!

However if you space the aluminum L supports wide enough to straddle the main table and drill a hold big enough to allow the support tube to pass through, that should all that would be needed.

True again! But if I already have the SS extension brackets, I can have a shorter or smaller "L" bracket. Or even a U bracket, or maybe square one for more strength.

Like I said you need to see the video of the Sawdust session.
Yes, I do!

I would really like to understand their purpose on Dusty's setup.

One of the things you can do with Dusty's setup is to adjust the pitch of the auxiliary table. I have an attempted explanation of the major purpose below. The main purpose is to stabilize the auxiliary table.

Trying to get us onto the same page, here's a crude drawing of the set-up Dusty used in this thread and on his new avatar.
[ATTACH]1547[/ATTACH]

What I tried to display is the SS table bracket. The #1 circle represents the main table tube. Both it and the small upright rectangle are "attached" to the main table. The upright rectangle represents the height adjustment screw on the bracket. It is attached to the main table from the upward force (teeter totter effect) caused by the downward force of the extension table. (The heavier the table the more upward force at this point.)

Both circles #1 and #2 (tubes run thru these circles) are connected together by the "L" bracket. In this way, because of the "L" bracket, the auxiliary table cannot pivot without first breaking the "L" bracket from the auxiliary table.

Since in this configuration, the auxiliary table's position is fixed by tube #1 & #2 - and tube #1 is fixed to the table as is the adjustment screw (vertical rectangle) the auxiliary table cannot swivel down. The SS extension bracket, the "L" bracket and the tubes work together to make the auxiliary table a unit that is stationary with any movement (vertical or tilting) of the main table.

Chuck
Thanks!
I guess while you were composing this Dusty posted a response to me. I now understand Dusty's setup. He wanted to be able to cantilever the outfeed form the main without needing an angled support tube.
I think I need to think through the process. But a parting word from Dusty was he would probably go back to the angled support tube so I suspect the
Extension brackets while functional are probably not the best way.

I have a few things I want to figure out.
One can I order just the metal parts from the Shopsmith outfeed table or not.
Two can I find aluminum to manufacture these parts should I not be able to purchase them from SS.
Third could the metal aluminum bracket that dusty constructed/ which is similar to the bracket SS supplies on their outfeed table, be made of wood.
The more I think about it all that would be needed is a piece of wood mounted on the bottom of an outfeed table with hole big enough to allow the fence support tubes to pass through and shimed so the main table and the out feed table are the same height.
If I build these from wood and I can't see why I can't then all I would have to cobble up is the swivel mount the angled support tube mounts to the bottom of the outfeed table and the jam nut assembly Drew supplied plans for that go into the bottom of a main table support tube.

I hope my wife doesn't have too many picnics planned this weekend I would like to start working on this quick. However I am in the middle of redoing my shop/garage.
Ed

[a1gutterman]

Tim,
I must have seen this differently than your view. The lower bracket is in fact totally enclosed in metal, For that one I agree with your assessment. In fact that is a very clever means of attachment. The upper bracket Is the one I must not have seen correctly. I saw it as not enclosed in metal. I guess I will wait for an opportunity to view these sessions again. Thanks for the input. Jim

Hi Jim!
After reading your post, I went back over the plans and realized that there are 3 wood part systems involved on this outfeed table. My previous post regarding this table discusses 2 of these systems. I forgot all about the "upper bracket" wood part system. You are correct in your observation that the upper bracket wood part IS NOT totally enclosed in metal. I agree with you as far as that that particular piece is more vulnerable to wear or failure then the other 2 wood part systems involved. Even so, I think that Nick commented on having been using the table for 3(?) months with no discernible wear on that part. On the plans, Drew/Nick recommends that only very hard wood be used.

I do have a solution for you, if that is the only part that you are worried about: Make the part out of wood, just exactly like the featured one, but the type of wood will not matter. Create a split form to pack sand in and pack sand into both seperate halfs of the form. Place your wood part in the lower form, and force it into the packed sand about half way. Place the other half of the split form onto the lower half, forcing the wood part into the sand, and create pour and vent holes in the sand down to the wood part. Carefully lift the top half of the form and remove the wood part. Carefully replace the upper half of the form and pour melted aluminum into the pour hole in the upper form. Let cool, remove your new aluminum part, cut/grind of the excess aluminum, drill the appropriate hole and you now have a metal part instead of a wood one! Check this out: http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/book_sc.html

[dusty]

Originally Posted by Ed in Tampa
Dusty
If I understand you the Shopsmith extension Table support brackets that you used are used to cantilever the outfeed table off the main table, thus removing the requirement of the angled support rod.

Is that correct?

Yes, Ed. You have this correct.


Correction Please.
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No, the aluminum bracket on my cantilevered version serves to tie the outfeed table, the extension brackets and the extension tubes all together. If you are starting with the Shopsmith Support Table - you already have the brackets that do this. If you are building from scratch, you need to either buy brackets from Shopsmith or build your own.

If there was a way to attach the table to the extension brackets, there would be no need for the aluminum brackets.

The aluminum bracket, with a slight modification, could be used without the extension brackets except for one thing - weight. The aluminum brackets worked fine in my first version but I don't believe they are strong enough to cantilever the table.

All I did to create my second version was drill a hole in each of the brackets to accomodate the second extension tube and assemble using the extension brackets. I then take away the angled support bracket and the table is cantilevered.

Chuck's rendition of the table and extension brackets is correct. Add dimensions and locations for the holes and you have drawings to build from.

[dusty]

Look at the first post in this thread. You see my Shopsmith equipped with extension brackets on the infeed side and a table spring clamped to the brackets.

Same thing, smaller table. I have not figured how to attach the table to the brackets unless I replicate the aluminum brackets used in my cantilevered version.

Now, take a look at my profile photo (same as my avatar). I think these tell it all.

[paul heller]

I've read reading this thread with great anticipation, because this would solve a problem I sometimes have. Unfortunately I missed yesterday's sawdust session, and I thought about holding off my question until I reviewed that particular session (just in case it answers my question).

But I can't bear to hold it in any longer

So--- what about the stresses on the table, trunions, and overall Mark V with these kinds of support tables just hanging out there"? It would seem to me that they are putting signifcant stresses in areas that the original engineers may not have intended. I liked Dusty's original idea with the support pole, but that seems to have disappeared in recent versions.

Paul

[dusty]

Paul, et al;

After configuring the cantilevered version, I have sort of fallen back to favoring my first version (Nick's design) because of the stress brought about by cantilevering that full table.

If we were dealing with a solid steel support base, I believe the cantilever would work fine. The cast table may not withstand those stresses.

I am leaning toward the configuration that uses the angled support bar. The weight of the outfeed table and anything on it will be shared by the lower bracket and the outfeed support tube.

I still plan to develop the details for the cantilevered version for use as an infeed table. See photo at beginning of this thread. The table would be much shorter thus much less stress.

[fjimp]

I just returned from the shop. The shopsmit version of the outfeed table measures 23 7/8" wide X 31 7/8" and is 1" thick. If one plans to mount the T

[dusty]

fjimp;

Are you able to determine the composition of the table? Is it a form of MDF or is it a birch ply? I expect it to be an MDF like the other tables.

Can you post a picture of the two brackets and confirm whether they are aluminum or steel?

With an extension tube installed in those brackets, how far is the center line of that tube from the infeed edge of the outfeed table?

How far are the brackets set in from the left and right edges of the Outfeed Table?

Are there two or three holes in the table for locating the upper mount? Do all three have inserts (reference PDF drawing for Outfeed Table Layout)?

With the Outfeed Table installed on the Shopsmith, are you able to move the table from side to side? If yes, how far?

The Outfeed Table is about 6 1/2" wider than the main table. Is the Outfeed Table centered on the Main Table or is it offset.

Nick reported during the Sawdust Session that the Outfeed Table remains aligned with the Main Table throughout the tilt range. Mine does NOT. Nick said that was due to the upper support bracket not being inline with the vertical Table Bar. Mine is?

[fjimp]

fjimp]Jim It is MDF and very heavy[/I]

Can you post a picture of the two brackets and confirm whether they are aluminum or steel?

Jim I am abit nervous about posting the pictures here as I am uncertain if they are copyrighted. They are steel.

With an extension tube installed in those brackets, how far is the center line of that tube from the infeed edge of the outfeed table?

Jim The mountingcan slide up to about six inches to either side. Please keep in mminf my table has a solid foot that goes all the way to the floor at this point in time.

How far are the brackets set in from the left and right edges of the Outfeed Table?

Jim The brackets are mounted 1/2" in from each side of the table.

Are there two or three holes in the table for locating the upper mount? Do all three have inserts (reference PDF drawing for Outfeed Table Layout)?

Jim There are two holes containing inserts. Nick has them noted as "A" and "B" "C" needs to be added. I suspect that once "C" is added and the angled foot is added the side to side slippage would no longer exist.

With the Outfeed Table installed on the Shopsmith, are you able to move the table from side to side? If yes, how far?

The Outfeed Table is about 6 1/2" wider than the main table. Is the Outfeed Table centered on the Main Table or is it offset.

Jim at the moment it can be moverd from site to side about 6".

Nick reported during the Sawdust Session that the Outfeed Table remains aligned with the Main Table throughout the tilt range. Mine does NOT. Nick said that was due to the upper support bracket not being inline with the vertical Table Bar. Mine is?

Jim As I mentioned above I believe that adding hole :C" and the lower arm/foot that nick's assesment would be correct. Incidentally Nick is retaining the upper mount for that angled tube. It swivels thus likley negating side by side slippage.

Okay now that I have run off at the mouth here I must add I am not an engineer. All of my assesments are subject to my own stupidity. Sales people seldom know anything about anything. Jim

[wdelliott]

Dusty,
In looking at the photo of your garage wall, I see your storage method of hanging your SS tables. Could you explain your system and how it works? Thanks.

Bill E.
Ravenna, Texas