Yeah you probably are correct about the manufacturer having a special jig for the rungs. I think I'll make some straight cuts to duplicate the edges and use a chisel, rasp, and sandpaper to form the tenons. It would be a different matter if I nneded to make dozens of these. Thanks to all for your input.
Dwight
Need suggestion for chair rung
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I believe Dick is right on! Looking at enlarged photos, it sure looks like the 'dowels' are in fact an extension of the same piece of wood as the square part. The grain runs straight from the rung to the dowel.
You can still use the horizontal drill and a dowel to replicate the piece. The lesser sloped dowel looks like not too big of a challenge. For the more sloping dowel, drill 5/8" only until the bit just barely goes into the rung. Then drill a smaller hole (like 3/8") deeper into the rung. Then you would dowel the dowel (a haunched dowel if you will) to fit.
You will need Forstner bits for all of the holes. In both ends a bench chisel can be used to replicate the shoulders.
Another approach would be to hand carve the dowel portions.
By the way, very nice photos!
You can still use the horizontal drill and a dowel to replicate the piece. The lesser sloped dowel looks like not too big of a challenge. For the more sloping dowel, drill 5/8" only until the bit just barely goes into the rung. Then drill a smaller hole (like 3/8") deeper into the rung. Then you would dowel the dowel (a haunched dowel if you will) to fit.
You will need Forstner bits for all of the holes. In both ends a bench chisel can be used to replicate the shoulders.
Another approach would be to hand carve the dowel portions.
By the way, very nice photos!
Octogenarian's have an earned right to be a curmudgeon.
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
-
a1gutterman
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 3653
- Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:45 am
- Location: "close to" Seattle
drl,charlese wrote:Had another thought that I forgot to mention earlier. Assembly may be a problem, depending on how much wiggle room you have with the legs. Good luck!
Chuck makes a good point. Hopefully, it is not the case for you. If it is, you may have to disassemble a portion of the chair, or...you could drill completely through the "back" of the leg, and insert a dowel from the back through the leg into the rung.
Tim
Buying US made products will help keep YOUR job or retirement funds safer.
Buying US made products will help keep YOUR job or retirement funds safer.
All the joints below the seat are loose on this chair so I have knocked it apart to clean the joints of the old glue and reglue it so space isn't an issue. I now understand why my parents told me not to lean back on the rear legs of a chair while sitting on it--chairs are not designed for that kind of stress.
Dwight
Dwight
Another small suggestion
Dwight - Just went back and looked at your photos, after reading that you've got the chair disassembled. Looks like the maker used hide glue. That is still a good choice to re-assemble. Lots of open time! Hide glue will hold together for ever if not subjected to water. Also a bit of water will aid in cleanup, but if you are going to use hide glue in re-assembly, there's no need to completely clean up the old stuff.
You may be thinking, "This guy is crazy!, after all, the previous hide glue didn't hold". However it looks like the rung, and probably the chair has seen some pretty rough use.
You may be thinking, "This guy is crazy!, after all, the previous hide glue didn't hold". However it looks like the rung, and probably the chair has seen some pretty rough use.
Octogenarian's have an earned right to be a curmudgeon.
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
-
a1gutterman
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 3653
- Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:45 am
- Location: "close to" Seattle
Or maybe it saw some of that moisture?charlese wrote:Dwight - Just went back and looked at your photos, after reading that you've got the chair disassembled. Looks like the maker used hide glue. That is still a good choice to re-assemble. Lots of open time! Hide glue will hold together for ever if not subjected to water. Also a bit of water will aid in cleanup, but if you are going to use hide glue in re-assembly, there's no need to completely clean up the old stuff.
You may be thinking, "This guy is crazy!, after all, the previous hide glue didn't hold". However it looks like the rung, and probably the chair has seen some pretty rough use.
Tim
Buying US made products will help keep YOUR job or retirement funds safer.
Buying US made products will help keep YOUR job or retirement funds safer.
Completed Chair
With all the advice presented on recreating a missing chair rund I owed a followup/conclusion to the project. I used suggestions from a number of contributors and appreciated all the input. After making a test piece of pine it was determined that making a mirror image of the other rung was in part, but not the total answer.
First off I did have a 5/8" plug cutter. It came in a traight/tapered plug cutter set I got from: http://www.toolstoday.com/p-5344-8-piec ... n-box.aspx[/URL] .Using the plug cutter in the drill chuck with the SS in the horizontal boring mode I was able to closely duplicate the angles of the ends of the rung by tilting the table and angle of the miter gauge until moving the quill caused no interference between the tenon and the plug cutter. But getting the two different final compound angle cuts on each end of a 3/4" length of rung was a visual/mental challenge for me so I cheated. I cut the compound angle on one length of 3/4" stock for the front leg. I then cut the compound angle on another length of 3/4" stock for the rear leg. Dry assembling the chair I was then able to fit the front leg partial rung and the rear leg rung and fine tune the length of the rung with straight cuts of each partial rung. I drilled 3/8" holes in the squared off end of each partial rung and glued it together with a 3/8" hardwood dowel for a completed 3/4" rung of the proper length. Has can be seen in one of the picutres you can see where the two rung pieces are glued together--the grain pattern does not line up. A one in four change and I did not win this one.
I then used a 5/8" Forstner bit and drilled through the front and rear legs where the rung tenons originally fit. I then securely clamped the new rung into alignment. Then using the leg hole as guides I drilled 5/8" holes into each end of the rung. The angle the front tenon was orientated resulted in the Forstner bit starting to come through the inside and and bottom of the rung. I did expect that which resulted in a hole in the rung about 1" deep. The angle on the rear leg was less of an issue and I got a 1 1/2" or so hole in that end of the rung with no drill through. I then cut and grooved two 5/8" hardwood dowels and glued them into the rung. I used the belt sander to flush the protruding dowel ends on the inside and bottom edge of the rung.
I believe that this particular chair was dubbed "that old chair." We need something to stand on--get "that old chair." "Get that old chair to paint on." This old chair had seen better days but its rickety days were near over.
The chair had a walnut stain and that new red oak rung stood out like a sore thumb. The chair seat had most of the finish worn off and was splattered with paint as were other parts of the chair. It had a shellac finish as best as I could determine (alcohol would cause the finish to get tacky). I decided to strip and refinish the whole chair. I used Formby's Furniture Refinisher to strip it and was quite pleased with the result. The seat had what looked like a round water stain on it. Solvents would not remove it so I used sandpaper and elbow grease. I sanded a 2 inch divot perhaps a sixteenth of an inch deep before the stain was gone. The divot can of course be felt but not easily seen. The front corners on the seat had been chipped away and were very rough--a snag creater, would be a pantyhose wreaker for sure. So I trimmed equal parts off the corners with the bandsaw and smoothed out the edges with the sanding disc. After some sanding overall I applied a Minwax Gel Stain of walnut. Let it dry for 10 minutes and wiped it off. Looked a little light so I applied another coat with which I was then satisfied. Dry assemble the chair again and then glued it up. I used Titebond III rather than hide glue as was a suggestion. The last time I used hide glue was in the late 60's in high school wood shop. I went with what I was familiar with. Using the 5/8" tapered plug cutter I made two plugs for the holes I created in the chair legs. I was able to match the grain pretty good in the front leg. The rear leg was a more difficult match. Did the best with what I had.
I was going to finish it with shellac but the gloss of shellac would not look like the rest of the set. I understand there is a product that will tone down the gloss but was not locally available. So I went with Minwax Polyurethane clear satin.--two coats. I attempted to glue a long crack in the chair back upright Even with a lot of clamping pressure it would not close completely. Perhaps there was dirt/debris in the crack but trying to force the crack apart to clean it left me feeling I would have a large piece of chair back in my hand. Also the top horizonal edge of the back was not smooth like the other chairs in the let. I left it as it was. Battle scars of its past existence--adds character as I like to call it.
Reuniting it with the rest of the set, it did not stand out as being a "new' chair except that it did not creak or rock when it was sat on. My daughter and son-in-law appreciated the "re-born" chair. It was a learning experience in more ways than one. A new appreciation for those who repair/recondition furniture. Thanks again to all for your help.
Regards,
Dwight
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First off I did have a 5/8" plug cutter. It came in a traight/tapered plug cutter set I got from: http://www.toolstoday.com/p-5344-8-piec ... n-box.aspx[/URL] .Using the plug cutter in the drill chuck with the SS in the horizontal boring mode I was able to closely duplicate the angles of the ends of the rung by tilting the table and angle of the miter gauge until moving the quill caused no interference between the tenon and the plug cutter. But getting the two different final compound angle cuts on each end of a 3/4" length of rung was a visual/mental challenge for me so I cheated. I cut the compound angle on one length of 3/4" stock for the front leg. I then cut the compound angle on another length of 3/4" stock for the rear leg. Dry assembling the chair I was then able to fit the front leg partial rung and the rear leg rung and fine tune the length of the rung with straight cuts of each partial rung. I drilled 3/8" holes in the squared off end of each partial rung and glued it together with a 3/8" hardwood dowel for a completed 3/4" rung of the proper length. Has can be seen in one of the picutres you can see where the two rung pieces are glued together--the grain pattern does not line up. A one in four change and I did not win this one.
I then used a 5/8" Forstner bit and drilled through the front and rear legs where the rung tenons originally fit. I then securely clamped the new rung into alignment. Then using the leg hole as guides I drilled 5/8" holes into each end of the rung. The angle the front tenon was orientated resulted in the Forstner bit starting to come through the inside and and bottom of the rung. I did expect that which resulted in a hole in the rung about 1" deep. The angle on the rear leg was less of an issue and I got a 1 1/2" or so hole in that end of the rung with no drill through. I then cut and grooved two 5/8" hardwood dowels and glued them into the rung. I used the belt sander to flush the protruding dowel ends on the inside and bottom edge of the rung.
I believe that this particular chair was dubbed "that old chair." We need something to stand on--get "that old chair." "Get that old chair to paint on." This old chair had seen better days but its rickety days were near over.
The chair had a walnut stain and that new red oak rung stood out like a sore thumb. The chair seat had most of the finish worn off and was splattered with paint as were other parts of the chair. It had a shellac finish as best as I could determine (alcohol would cause the finish to get tacky). I decided to strip and refinish the whole chair. I used Formby's Furniture Refinisher to strip it and was quite pleased with the result. The seat had what looked like a round water stain on it. Solvents would not remove it so I used sandpaper and elbow grease. I sanded a 2 inch divot perhaps a sixteenth of an inch deep before the stain was gone. The divot can of course be felt but not easily seen. The front corners on the seat had been chipped away and were very rough--a snag creater, would be a pantyhose wreaker for sure. So I trimmed equal parts off the corners with the bandsaw and smoothed out the edges with the sanding disc. After some sanding overall I applied a Minwax Gel Stain of walnut. Let it dry for 10 minutes and wiped it off. Looked a little light so I applied another coat with which I was then satisfied. Dry assemble the chair again and then glued it up. I used Titebond III rather than hide glue as was a suggestion. The last time I used hide glue was in the late 60's in high school wood shop. I went with what I was familiar with. Using the 5/8" tapered plug cutter I made two plugs for the holes I created in the chair legs. I was able to match the grain pretty good in the front leg. The rear leg was a more difficult match. Did the best with what I had.
I was going to finish it with shellac but the gloss of shellac would not look like the rest of the set. I understand there is a product that will tone down the gloss but was not locally available. So I went with Minwax Polyurethane clear satin.--two coats. I attempted to glue a long crack in the chair back upright Even with a lot of clamping pressure it would not close completely. Perhaps there was dirt/debris in the crack but trying to force the crack apart to clean it left me feeling I would have a large piece of chair back in my hand. Also the top horizonal edge of the back was not smooth like the other chairs in the let. I left it as it was. Battle scars of its past existence--adds character as I like to call it.
Reuniting it with the rest of the set, it did not stand out as being a "new' chair except that it did not creak or rock when it was sat on. My daughter and son-in-law appreciated the "re-born" chair. It was a learning experience in more ways than one. A new appreciation for those who repair/recondition furniture. Thanks again to all for your help.
Regards,
Dwight
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