Headstock slipping

[JPG]

IIUC this is an approximately one year old Mark 7 purchased new from SS.

I agree a call to Jim McCann is appropriate.

When the lock is loosened all the way, can you push them in/out freely?

Could there be flash on the wedges?

[reible]

Can you post some pictures of what you are doing and how you are set up?

One that that has been documented on regular routers when either hand held or table mounted deals with spiral bits. Down spiral bits can dig in when cutting because of slippage of the bit in the collet, or if the router is not be locked securely or improper use of lifts. In these cases the bit will go deeper due to the nature of the spiral. So my first question is are you using such a bit? If so do you have another bit to try? Could this extra pull effect a headstock, I don't know??

My next thought deals with having to be in vertical position, like drilling these operations can be done in horizontal mode depending on what the operation is. While not a fix per say it might get you past this for the time being.

If you opt for the dual tilt then the router position can be above or below the table. Which then leads to that upgrade. In a lot of cases I prefer the router below so I opted for the kit to do that.

Next is question is have you attempted to change the location of the headstock either above or below where it is now sitting? I'd give that a try as well, it can't hurt to see if this is a location problem or if it always happens. Move down 6" or so and lock and run the 2x4 test again.....

The unit being so new it is worth a call to shopsmith to see what they have to say.

Ed

[rjent]

Can you post some pictures of what you are doing and how you are set up?
I certainly can take pictures, but all you are going to see is the work piece below the bit and feather boards holding the work. If you still think it would help, I would be happy to do so.
One that that has been documented on regular routers when either hand held or table mounted deals with spiral bits. Down spiral bits can dig in when cutting because of slippage of the bit in the collet, or if the router is not be locked securely or improper use of lifts. In these cases the bit will go deeper due to the nature of the spiral. So my first question is are you using such a bit? If so do you have another bit to try? Could this extra pull effect a headstock, I don't know??
In this test I am using a "standard" 5/8 straight bit as I wanted to create a lot of vibration as it cut the material. I cut a shallow 1/16th or so groove with the grain so a double pass was not necessary. It was (and as my experience has shown) when I got to a hard knot in the wood and the vibration caused by the knot amplified the vibration (what I was shooting for) the headstock moved. So, no spiral bits. My experince has no tool rhyme or reason other than the vibration accompanied with the bit and stock. I have had this problem with any bit I have used from round over to cove. Experience has show the harder the bit is working (depth and hardness) the more prominent the headstock slip is. At first, as a newbie to this , I thought I was doing it wrong, but as my confidence and knowledge has increased, I have come to realize that something is changing during these sessions. I proved today, that the headstock is truly moving. The question in my mind now is why, and how can I prevent it.....

My next thought deals with having to be in vertical position, like drilling these operations can be done in horizontal mode depending on what the operation is. While not a fix per say it might get you past this for the time being.

If you opt for the dual tilt then the router position can be above or below the table. Which then leads to that upgrade. In a lot of cases I prefer the router below so I opted for the kit to do that.

I agree. I many times like the under table position, but as you know as an expert, certain jobs require (or at least suggest) an over head router. By design, these machines should do that.

Next is question is have you attempted to change the location of the headstock either above or below where it is now sitting? I'd give that a try as well, it can't hurt to see if this is a location problem or if it always happens. Move down 6" or so and lock and run the 2x4 test again.....

I have not specifically, intentionally, placed the HS in different positions and tried to duplicate the problem, but just through using it for certain processes, I am sure the HS has been in different positions, with the same result. Like I said, I blamed myself for the problem until lately, and today I proved that the HS did/does move on it's own.

The unit being so new it is worth a call to shopsmith to see what they have to say.

That is my next step. Hopefully I can get some insight tomorrow. I will let the forum know what I find.

Ed

[reible]

OK fair enough.

Yes I would like to see your set-up in a picture.

One thing that is bothering me is the vibration of which you speak. If you are experiencing a lot of vibration when making a cut only 1/16" deep something is likely wrong. A sharp carbide bit should have no trouble cutting a slot that shallow in pine/fur 2 x 4's.

Do you have a hand held router that you can use to duplicate this cut? If so do so, the vibration should be pretty much none existent. I've done and do a lot of routing and vibration is a bad sign.

I guess I'm saying you might have two problems, one being the headstock slipping and the other, well something else.

Ed

[rjent]

OK fair enough.

Yes I would like to see your set-up in a picture.

One thing that is bothering me is the vibration of which you speak. If you are experiencing a lot of vibration when making a cut only 1/16" deep something is likely wrong. A sharp carbide bit should have no trouble cutting a slot that shallow in pine/fur 2 x 4's.

Do you have a hand held router that you can use to duplicate this cut? If so do so, the vibration should be pretty much none existent. I've done and do a lot of routing and vibration is a bad sign.

I guess I'm saying you might have two problems, one being the headstock slipping and the other, well something else.

Ed

That is a good point Ed. I AM green at this, and it very well may be something I am doing wrong still. I do not have a hand held router (on my list), so I can't do that test. Let me set up another test, with Pine, and take a pic.

[reible]

Just a couple of quick router tips.

Make sure you are using a router chuck and not drill chuck.

If using the fence you route from left to right.

Use a push block/stick rather then your fingers if your fingers would normally be any where near the cutting area. That sounds strange, point being don't let your fingers get anywhere near the cutter.

Feed should be firm and steady and slow enough to not be forcing the cut.

For deeper cuts take them in steps.

Maintain control at all times.

Ed

[billmayo]

I used a 2 piece clamp-on shaft collar (http://www.mcmaster.com/#shaft-collars/=11604rq) on each way tube when I was doing milling operations to prevent the headstock from slipping down on the way tubes. The headstock was in the drill press position.

[JPG]

Thoughts on this.

When drilling, the load exerts an upward force to the headstock.

When routing there is none(unless drilling with the router bit).

So, I think that contributes to the problem.

Still it should not slip IMHO regardless.

Indeed the increased rpms and possibly the larger router bits and pulsed motor may have revealed an inadequacy in the 60 year old headstock lock design used for the Mark 7.

[silenthope]

I used a 2 piece clamp-on shaft collar (http://www.mcmaster.com/#shaft-collars/=11604rq) on each way tube when I was doing milling operations to prevent the headstock from slipping down on the way tubes. The headstock was in the drill press position.

My two cents... Is there anyone out there experiencing the same issue, or is this an isolated case? My guess would be that if others duplicated the same conditions, they would experience the same results! Just seems like a lot to expect from the tube stops...a HEAVY headstock with parts spinning at 10K!

Betcha SS will recommend Bill's solution...not to negate how important it is to get their opinion. For as much as we want to believe that these units are "perfect", they have there limits (gasp!...followed by a friendly smile). Bill's suggestion seems a very reasonable, and affordable solution.

(If my order from SS would just get here, I wouldn't have the time to bother this forum with my opinion! Ha!)

[reible]

So should all of us powerpro owners expect replacement 2.0 wedges?

I would have thought they would have tested this more then a few times but if it is not an isolated incident how are they going to handle this?

Now I didn't get the powerpro to be a router so I don't really have a vested interest that someone does that was hoping to skip buying a router. I'm not seeing this but then I'm not using it as a router except for some small amount of testing when I first got it.

For now all we know is the one incident. Shopsmith may know more after fielding more calls. So for now we wait.

Ed