How can we help Shopsmith?

[woodburner]

Dusty,

That is great that you can do the cutting and part making for these young people. But what is being discussed however is the sales of tools (Shopsmith vs. newer-designed/upgraded stand-alone tools). Are these young people purchasing tools from you? Do most of these young people know how to operate the tools? Are they doing the actual work? How many of them will want to learn how to operate and maintain a fifty year-old tool vs. a tool that fits into the throw-away type of society that we have now? A bigger question is: How many of us are willing to take the time and teach the younger people how to operate and maintain these older designed tools?

Most newcomers to woodworking are more than likely to purchase newer model tools, than tools that haven't been upgraded for several years. Most of them are not concerned with the longevity of the tool either. Most have been brought up in time that if it breaks, just go buy a new one. Automobiles are even built now with that concept.

Ask a young person what they would rather purchase: a transistor radio or an I-Pod? Same example holds true for just about anything else being sold now-a-days to the younger generation, including woodworking tools.

If you want to sell a product, you need to keep pace with how society views these products in the present time, not how it was viewed fifty years ago. If this costs money, so be it. As a business, if you can't afford to keep up with the present society and culture, then unfortunetly you don't have much of a future in the business world left.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Shopsmith tools. But I was brought up to look at the quality and usefullness of what I am purchasing. That type of outlook has changed greatly in the last 20 or so years.

Also, have you given any thought to teaching these young people that come through your shop time-to-time how to woodwork? Are they interested in learning the craft, or do they prefer just having someone else do it for them? The greatest gift you can give one of these young people is the knowledge of woodworking you have gained over the years. Just doing the work for them does nothing in the way of keeping our craft alive for future generations.

[cincinnati]

Also, why did you feel the need to quote my entire posting? Just the "new gizmo" part would have been good enough. No need to repeat everything I just said in a new post.

Talk about rude. Are you always that way or just having a bad day? Relax, That is what woodworking is for.

[Nick]

To those of you advocating newer, electronic products -- Just so you understand all the ramifications of what you have been suggesting, remember that not all (in fact, not very many) of the new advances in electric power and electronic controls for commercial and home appliances are coming from the United States. Well, that's not quite true. A good many ideas are coming from America, but their implementation and manufacture seems to occur across the border and overseas. Were we to move in this direction, there would likely be parts in our tools manufactured in India, Germany, Mexico, Russia, New Zealand, Taiwan and (horror of horrors!) China. China makes about 95% of the circuit boards for electronically-controlled power tools worldwide. You'd be okay with this?

With all good wishes,

[ryanbp01]

Nick-

No way. I, for one would not know where to start in replacing electronic circuit boards. It scares the daylights out of me and I see big dollar signs whenever I have had to get a computer to be repaired! How in the world would a person be able to perform their adjustments with some type of complex diagnostic equipment?

In a related post on demos, I posted an idea that perhaps it is time Shopsmith owners start local user groups. I believe that this is would build upon what you had initiated with the Owner's Weekend.

BPR

[ldh]

As a member of a small woodworking club (32 members) here in Southern Colorado I demo some aspect of woodworking on my 520 any time I host the meeting in my shop. We have several members that have taken a long hard look at the SS after some of the demos and a couple have purchased a SS. With the Sept. meeting at my shop I will demo the overhead fence to do a small box and use the sand flee to sand the project. A couple of months ago I took my bandsaw to one of the members shop to demo re-saw for the monthly meeting and used his 510 for power. My bandsaw is fitted with ceramic blade guides and the double thrust bearings that I have mentioned in earlier posts. They were quite surprised when they discovered the SS handled hard maple just as well as soft cedar. The meeting lasted well over an hour longer than usual. My point is, as SS users we are well aware of how well a SS performs and we need to tell others and show them when we have the opportunity. Like many of you I remember the dark days when one could not get any SS equipment or parts and don't want those dark days to return.

ldh

[cincinnati]

Nick!

I have been looking at some small metal working equipment to teach myself the craft just like I did buying a Shopsmith some 20 years ago. One of the very popular tools is a mini lathe. (pic below) They use an electronics speed control and are very well know not to hold up. One guy has even built a home based business repairing and upgrading. I think the Shopsmith should stay the same. It is a proven tool that has stand the test of time. But on the other hand nothing wrong with offering it as an option to the newer woodworker.
When I think electronics in woodworking, I think of the Craftsman radial arm saw a friend had with digital readout. Because it was out in a cold garage, the battery was always dead when you needed it. And it used a special camera type battery so none was handy. My Shopsmith has fired up each and every I have asked it to. For 20 years.

[a1gutterman]

To those of you advocating newer, electronic products -- Just so you understand all the ramifications of what you have been suggesting, remember that not all (in fact, not very many) of the new advances in electric power and electronic controls for commercial and home appliances are coming from the United States. Well, that's not quite true. A good many ideas are coming from America, but their implementation and manufacture seems to occur across the border and overseas. Were we to move in this direction, there would likely be parts in our tools manufactured in India, Germany, Mexico, Russia, New Zealand, Taiwan and (horror of horrors!) China. China makes about 95% of the circuit boards for electronically-controlled power tools worldwide. You'd be okay with this?

With all good wishes,

No! KISS!

[jg300da]

Dusty,

That is great that you can do the cutting and part making for these young people. But what is being discussed however is the sales of tools (Shopsmith vs. newer-designed/upgraded stand-alone tools). Are these young people purchasing tools from you? Do most of these young people know how to operate the tools? Are they doing the actual work? How many of them will want to learn how to operate and maintain a fifty year-old tool vs. a tool that fits into the throw-away type of society that we have now? A bigger question is: How many of us are willing to take the time and teach the younger people how to operate and maintain these older designed tools?

Most newcomers to woodworking are more than likely to purchase newer model tools, than tools that haven't been upgraded for several years. Most of them are not concerned with the longevity of the tool either. Most have been brought up in time that if it breaks, just go buy a new one. Automobiles are even built now with that concept.

Ask a young person what they would rather purchase: a transistor radio or an I-Pod? Same example holds true for just about anything else being sold now-a-days to the younger generation, including woodworking tools.

If you want to sell a product, you need to keep pace with how society views these products in the present time, not how it was viewed fifty years ago. If this costs money, so be it. As a business, if you can't afford to keep up with the present society and culture, then unfortunetly you don't have much of a future in the business world left.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Shopsmith tools. But I was brought up to look at the quality and usefullness of what I am purchasing. That type of outlook has changed greatly in the last 20 or so years.

Also, have you given any thought to teaching these young people that come through your shop time-to-time how to woodwork? Are they interested in learning the craft, or do they prefer just having someone else do it for them? The greatest gift you can give one of these young people is the knowledge of woodworking you have gained over the years. Just doing the work for them does nothing in the way of keeping our craft alive for future generations.

Many good and valid points. Seems from responses that not everyone is getting the point here. They are seeing your recommendations from the viewpoint of their Shopsmith ownership and not that of younger potential buyers. Too bad.

[Ed in Tampa]

Dusty,

That is great that you can do the cutting and part making for these young people. But what is being discussed however is the sales of tools (Shopsmith vs. newer-designed/upgraded stand-alone tools). Are these young people purchasing tools from you? Do most of these young people know how to operate the tools? Are they doing the actual work? How many of them will want to learn how to operate and maintain a fifty year-old tool vs. a tool that fits into the throw-away type of society that we have now? A bigger question is: How many of us are willing to take the time and teach the younger people how to operate and maintain these older designed tools?

Most newcomers to woodworking are more than likely to purchase newer model tools, than tools that haven't been upgraded for several years. Most of them are not concerned with the longevity of the tool either. Most have been brought up in time that if it breaks, just go buy a new one. Automobiles are even built now with that concept.

Ask a young person what they would rather purchase: a transistor radio or an I-Pod? Same example holds true for just about anything else being sold now-a-days to the younger generation, including woodworking tools.

If you want to sell a product, you need to keep pace with how society views these products in the present time, not how it was viewed fifty years ago. If this costs money, so be it. As a business, if you can't afford to keep up with the present society and culture, then unfortunetly you don't have much of a future in the business world left.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Shopsmith tools. But I was brought up to look at the quality and usefullness of what I am purchasing. That type of outlook has changed greatly in the last 20 or so years.

Also, have you given any thought to teaching these young people that come through your shop time-to-time how to woodwork? Are they interested in learning the craft, or do they prefer just having someone else do it for them? The greatest gift you can give one of these young people is the knowledge of woodworking you have gained over the years. Just doing the work for them does nothing in the way of keeping our craft alive for future generations.

Woodburner
You make a good point, the majority of today's society does have a disposable mentality. And your right if we ask which they would rather have a transistor radio or an IPOD they would say the IPOD.

However people that buy tools usually don't have the buy it, throw it away mentality they are the ones that try to fix things. They only get frustrated when they realize the have to have "you can't buy it" circuit boards or the thing that is broke is embedded in epoxy.

I would agree with you hundred percent if Shopsmith was trying to sell their machines to "never get you hands dirty yuppies" but they aren't they are selling to people that want to know how it works, want to be able to fix it when it breaks people.

You see the difference all the time, the preppies pull up in daddy's Beamer and they know all about the GPS mounted on the dash and MP3 bluetooth player in the dash but they are surprized to find out tires have air in them.

Then you see future woodworker pull up in his pickum up truck who may have all the stuff and even a cell phone to call his buddies about the Turkeys he just spotted. But he is the one that can change the drive shaft of his truck with just a screw driver and a few rocks he found.

Besides why on earth do we need a digital speed read out or electronic speed control? If the speed is too slow speed it up if it is too fast turn it down. I don't care if it 1000 rpm or 2000. And since the variable speed control works so well without failure why put in an electronic one? If either of these areas causes serious problems then again I would agree with you but they are not.
Ed

[woodburner]

Hi Ed,

I'm not saying one type is superior to the other. I'm just pointing out that in today's market, the sales are in the modern day, upgraded type of tools.

As for the "throw-away" types not buying tools that are not considered "throw-aways", have you seen what they sell at the big box stores (Lowes, etc.). Just take a look at the tablesaws they offer. These tools are considered "throw-away" tools by actual craftsman and they do not buy them.

But for the average person, they use them and then dump them when something else catches their fancy. Lowes and others would not have the sales they do with these tools if they are built well enough to be passed down from family member to family member, and last fifty or more years.

They are designed and built to last only a cerain amount of working hours, and then they die.

Unfortunately, most do not do their homework before they purchase these kinds of tools, and they end up at the local dump when the owner gets tired of having it take up space in the corner of the garage. I myself have seen them dumped at my local refuge site. These tools are sold as "quick-buy" tools with the hopes the purchaser does not look any further than the box it comes in.

And, as pointed out in another thread, it seems that Shopsmith is jumping on the bandwagon, but is heading in the wrong direction, by offering cheaper made replacement parts. It has been effecting the performance of the machines which in turn will hurt sales.

Quality doesn't fit into the equasion as much as it used to where sales of a product are concerned. It's more about the newest and the fastest. That's what creates sales in today's society. That is why Shopsmith lacks in sales.

I'm not saying they need to re-create the Mark V, but they do need to show what the Shopsmith is about, and why it can keep up with the competition. But the bottom line according to them is money, money, money. And a lack of it.

Maybe it's time for a Mark V upgrade. It's been quite a while since they actually did something to improve the Mark V itself. That is when they designed the 520 (18 yrs. ago?) The company was doing something about every 10-12 yrs. to improve the Mark V and keep pace with the tool market, but that ended with the 520. What happened?

Some of you have asked: Why an electronic varaible speed motor? Here's one answer. Being able to adjust the speed down to below 100 rpm's will be nice, especially with woodturning. I know, not all of you wood turn. But what about drilling large holes with Forstner bits. It can be great for that too. It sure would beat having to attach and remove that darn speed reducer all the time.

Why an electronic speed gauge? Because certain operations do require a specific speed. Why do you think the current speed dial has the lettering on it. I say, if you can improve on that and make some operations easier and safer, then go for it. That is why so many lathe manufacturers have put them on their lathes.

Well, I think I've said enough for now.