The usual noobie mistake -help please

[retiredsoldier919]

With this in mind, is there any part that would be more suspect? Is there a part that can go bad just from non-use?
1. This is a SS that was never used.
2. It was partially setup and stored for over 20 yrs.

Could the capacitor be too old and just go bad after just sitting unused?
Could the centrifugal switch just go bad?

[reubenjames]

Belts will "go bad" just sitting under tension for long periods of time. Almost any part can rust partially and start to seize depending on the storage conditions (temperature / humidity). I don't think you can trust what anyone says about the last 20 years of storage conditions, unless you monitored those conditions yourself over that period of time. I don't think I saw if you were able to pull the floating sheave away from the fan sheave using your hands--those are the sheaves on the motor shaft with the big coiled spring on the end. You should be able to pull the outer sheave (floating sheave) away from the inner sheave (fan sheave) to compress that spring. The resistance met should really only be the resistance from the spring itself (which is considerable, but can be done by hand, barring any arthritis problems, etc.). Capacitor going bad from storage alone would, again, depend heavily on conditions, I think, but I would think you'd be having more issues running the motor even without a load if that were the case. Your findings still sound like an issue with too much of a load on the motor, which is most commonly caused by belt condition / tension issues and/or sheave movement issues. Not saying it couldn't be motor-related, but the belts and sheaves would be more common, especially if you've eliminated any issues with the speed control.
Also, if it isn't belt or sheave related, it could be the idler shaft or the quill. Make sure you can turn everything by hand easily, without the belts on. You could have seized parts in any of the shafts that are placing a heavy strain on the motor. Is there visible rust anywhere in the system? If so, you know conditions were sufficient to rust internals, as well.

[dusty]

It sounds to me as though you have done every thing that need be done to isolate the problem - SO - we missed something along the line.

Do you have a different outlet (on a different circuit) that you can plug the unit into? If you do and the breaker trips there then it is unlikely to be the power source.

Belrs can "take a set" when not used for a long period of time but I do not believe that having done so would cause the breaker to trip. It would run rough and noisy but after awhile that would reduce.

The capacitor comes into play ONLY during the first few seconds. Remember, this is the "starting capacitor" of startup. When the centifugal switch kicks in the starting capacitor is removed from the motor circuit and does nothing until the next startup. On all of the machines that I have worked on or with, the actions of the start relay can be heard.

When you have the motor belt removed, if you spin the sanding disk (mounted on the drive shaft) by hand you would be able to feel if there are any spots in the rotation where something seems to be binding. You may have to do this for a few minutes in order to "get the feel".

I know you said you oiled it but oil it again. Especially the motor sheave.

Do you have a way to determine how much current is being drawn by the motor 1. during startup and 2. after it reaches run speed.

What is the serial number and what is the model number (manufacturer) of the motor. The start circuit is not the same in all of them and knowing this might provide a clue.

What color is it? Grey, Green, Gold

I don't believe the quill is part of your problem but to be sure you could remove the quill until you determine the cause of your problem.

Even with the problems that you are having, it sounds as though you got a real good deal.

Welcome to the forum. Be patient, you'll be making saw dust before you know it.

[reible]

I was just reading this thread and the first thing I thought of is the shopsmith the only thing on the 20A circuit or is it shared with some other things, lights, fans, anything at all?

We use to have a saying here, it is never the capacitor, and that is true most of the time.

This issue is more likely due to the belts and sheaves. Unplug it and open the access covers and get a good light so you can see what is happening. With a sanding disk attached slowly rotate the machine and change speeds, slow to high and back and do this several times SLOWLY. Watch if the belts are able to change heights in the sheaves...... I'd say do this at least 3 times ending with the machine on slow.

If it passes this test and will still not start then perhaps cord/switch/motor type issues......

Ed

[retiredsoldier919]

Well I just finished disassembling/reassembling the motor from the headstock. Idid all tests as advised by Jacob's Youtube videos. I tested the switch, cord and checked the windings for continuity. All iteams tested good. So I oiled the motor sheave more and the control sheave. I was able to separate the motor sheaves with my hands. I also checked the belts and measured the belt on the sheaves. It is in good shape and is .55 inches wide. After reassembly I tried again on two circuits. Both trip when the motor slowly spins for a few seconds. My next step is to i stall a new 20 amp circuit. New Eaton 20amp breaker, 12 gage wire and 20 amp outlet. Since everything else checks out I'm left to believe that the motor is drawing more power than these old circuits can provide. I just can't get over that the motor runs so well with no load. And starting to really appreciate my 10er so much. I may keep it.

[retiredsoldier919]

I was just reading this thread and the first thing I thought of is the shopsmith the only thing on the 20A circuit or is it shared with some other things, lights, fans, anything at all?

We use to have a saying here, it is never the capacitor, and that is true most of the time.

This issue is more likely due to the belts and sheaves. Unplug it and open the access covers and get a good light so you can see what is happening. With a sanding disk attached slowly rotate the machine and change speeds, slow to high and back and do this several times SLOWLY. Watch if the belts are able to change heights in the sheaves...... I'd say do this at least 3 times ending with the machine on slow.

If it passes this test and will still not start then perhaps cord/switch/motor type issues......

Ed

Hi,
The Electrical Panel is only about 8 months old (installed prior to closing on the house). So the breakers are new Eaton 20 Amp breakers. However the wiring to the outlet and the outlet itself are quite old. I plan to add a completely new 20 Amp circuit in the garage. I needed one anyway. That should completely eliminate the circuit as a problem. I've checked all moving parts of the headstock and everything appears/feels to be moving freely and operating properly. I just can't put a load on the motor without it tripping the circuit. So I'm getting more and more convinced that my motor is not able to draw enough power from the circuit when under any load.
The current circuit I've been testing on is a dedicated 20 amp circuit, nothing else plugged into it. It normally feeds my sprinkler system pump. Which I unplug prior to testing. I'll continue to post results as I progress.

[JPG]

Although it is rarely the start capacitor, it is often the start switch.

That would be my next step.

[retiredsoldier919]

Although it is rarely the start capacitor, it is often the start switch.

That would be my next step.

I'll check that tonight.
Thanks.

[reible]

The last 10ER I got the guy said the motor was running "weak". When I took it apart there were 3 small strands of wire making the connection from the cord to the switch. Well you get what you get and that may have saved me some money since he was an honest guy.

If the wiring is old it also could be lighter gauge then you need. If you have an outlet near the switch box like a washer or dryer in a utility room then a heavy gauge drop cord from that to the shopsmith can eliminate the wiring in the house. I'd go with a 12ga and if you can reach 25 foot long cord.

Ed

[johnm]

It sounds like the motor is not starting properly under load, which points to: a) the start switch is bad or not making contact, b) the starting capacitor is bad or weak, or c) the start winding is open. If the start winding doesn't kick in, the motor wont develop enough torque under load and will slowly spin up, drawing lots of current.

Under no load, the motor may appear to start, but that's because it doesn't need much torque to come up to speed. I vote for a weak starting capacitor. If you have a multimeter, you can use the "ohms" setting to see if the start winding is open (infinite resistance). If it is, you might get lucky and spot a bad connection where the wires join to the winding; otherwise, the start winding may be burned out, but you would probably see lots of toasted insulation internally.

Good luck. Induction motors are pretty robust, so don't give up without a fight.