1986 Mark V 510, USGI

[jms]

Hi folks, this is my first real post here and I thought I'd share some photos of the Mark V I just bought and ask a few questions (SS newbie here).

From the serial plate it's a Model 510 and the S/N indicates a 1986 model. This unit was used by the USAF on Seymore Johnson Air Force Base and then auctioned off at a DRMO auction 8 years ago. The gentlemen I bought it from is still stationed there and bought it via silent auction. He never used it even once.

Missing some key items ... power coupler is broken, no lathe chuck or tools, no sanding disc, and missing the jointer fence.

The seller told me that it ran, but ran "slow". After I got it home, I rotated it manually from the high end to the low end of the speed range, plugged it in and she purrs. I've oiled both sheave sets and sprayed silicon on the rack/pinion for the speed changer -- per the sawdust sessions mentioned in the "newbie" sticky post.

Aside from the missing parts, I have 3 issues I need to resolve, at least that I'm aware of, both with the headstock.

1) First, I've probably started this thing 20 times in the past 2 days and never changed speeds without it on or manually rotation, but on occasion it has started up "slow", sounds like binding somewhere, rotating no more than a few revolutions per second at best, maybe slower -- when this happens I of course turn it off immdiately, and if I manually rotate and bring it to the slow end of the speed spectrum then turn it on, it runs at normal speed and I can spin it up and down through the speed ranges and it works like normal. Any ideas? Speed changer feels very good after the sheave oiling and rack/pinion cleaning / oiling. I don't want to burn up the motor, would be good to isolate what this is and resolve ASAP.

2) Second, the quill is very hard to move in and out. I've removed it, cleaned it, and reinserted per the sawdust sessions. But the set screw keyway seems to have a high spot on one side that is gouging the cast aluminum of the headstock. Should I purchase a new quill or is there a way to fix this one without taking it to a machine shop? Photos are attached.

3) The spline gear in the quill, if the quill is sitting on a flat surface and I spin the chuck end which spins the spline end, the spline is very clearly, very slightly bent, you can see it wobble just a little but very clearly. Is this expected? I have a video of this in action, not sure if I can post the video to the forum though.

Anyways, I've found tons of great info on how to clean, use, and maintain this machine on this forum just in the past few days -- just wanted to say what a great help it's been for a SS newbie like myself.

And now to the photos ...








Quill high spot


Headstock qouge

[wa2crk]

Congratulations and welcome to the insanity. You have a model 510. The burrs on the quill can be removed by some judicious filing with some fine jewelers files. If you can feel the burr with your fingers you should remove it. The gouge inside the headstock bore is a bit more perplexing. My guess would be that some debris got in the groove of the quill housing and the quill was forcibly extended and retracted. If the headstock does not cause any rub marks on the quill all should be OK. As for the bent quill shaft, should be straightened or replaced. Some of the earlier quill shafts were to prone to bending. An '86 machine should have been equipped with a 2 bearing quill from the factory.
The headstock bore can be cleaned with some solvent and a rag wrapped around a dowel to remove any old wax. Do not use any abrasive that will remove metal from the headstock bore.
Bill Mayo on this forum has extensive experience repairing these machines and he may pop up here.
If you want to, please post your location. You never when someone might be around the corner ready to help.
The slow start up can be caused by circuit limitations. Shopsmith strongly recommends a dedicated 20 amp circuit and only 12 gauge extension cords that are in good condition.
Bill V

[jms]

Congratulations and welcome to the insanity. You have a model 510. The burrs on the quill can be removed by some judicious filing with some fine jewelers files. If you can feel the burr with your fingers you should remove it. The gouge inside the headstock bore is a bit more perplexing. My guess would be that some debris got in the groove of the quill housing and the quill was forcibly extended and retracted. If the headstock does not cause any rub marks on the quill all should be OK. As for the bent quill shaft, should be straightened or replaced. Some of the earlier quill shafts were to prone to bending. An '86 machine should have been equipped with a 2 bearing quill from the factory.
The headstock bore can be cleaned with some solvent and a rag wrapped around a dowel to remove any old wax. Do not use any abrasive that will remove metal from the headstock bore.
Bill Mayo on this forum has extensive experience repairing these machines and he may pop up here.
If you want to, please post your location. You never when someone might be around the corner ready to help.
The slow start up can be caused by circuit limitations. Shopsmith strongly recommends a dedicated 20 amp circuit and only 12 gauge extension cords that are in good condition.
Bill V

Thanks for the information. My gut tells me that the burr on the quill has caused the gouge in the headstock quill bore, as you say from being forcibly extended and retracted. You can even see in my photo the aluminum shavings sitting in the quill keyway near the largest burr.

Given the burr and the bent drive shaft - seems to me that replacing the quill altogether might be the most judicious route here.

Other than cleaning everything up, oiling a few spots, silicon in a few spots, and wax everywhere else -- are there other tips you might have for a SS newbie in regards to getting the machine back to running as smooth or better than it did when it shipped from the factory? I'm not opposed to tearing the headstock down and replacing all serviceable bearings or other wear points. I would like to put this machine back into routine service -- the wife is expecting a breakfast area 4x4 truss beam table (with benches) plus a long TV console in the spirit of an old pie safe before spring so I need to get the machine serviceable by the end of the year :-)

[jms]

By the way I'm located in Youngsville, North Carolina - just north of Raleigh.

Does SS sell any service parts through a dealer network? I see SS abbrasives at my local Lowes but haven't checked with the local woodworking shops on local parts availability.

[JPG]

Problem #3 quill 'bent?' Is it bent, or does it merely wobble. Will the drive sleeve end move sideways if pushed?

Problem #2 quill burrs. Yes do gently file them away. Also make sure the sides of the keyway are also not burred. When inserting the quill back into the headstock, make sure the half dog set screw drops into the keyway and not jam into the top(where the burrs are).

Problem #1 is a bit more tricky. Easiest thing to check is the splices in the line cord. I would suspect the internal start switch next. Start capacitor terminals may be suspect. Heed the advice re extension cord. Does it act up when NOT using one? Then there is the question of the power source/receptacle/plug/ . . . I assume the floating sheave is free to move easily(well oiled).

[jms]

Problem #3 quill 'bent?' Is it bent, or does it merely wobble. Will the drive sleeve end move sideways if pushed?

Problem #2 quill burrs. Yes do gently file them away. Also make sure the sides of the keyway are also not burred. When inserting the quill back into the headstock, make sure the half dog set screw drops into the keyway and not jam into the top(where the burrs are).

Problem #1 is a bit more tricky. Easiest thing to check is the splices in the line cord. I would suspect the internal start switch next. Start capacitor terminals may be suspect. Heed the advice re extension cord. Does it act up when NOT using one? Then there is the question of the power source/receptacle/plug/ . . . I assume the floating sheave is free to move easily(well oiled).

Thanks JPG ... yes the spline end of the spindle that sits inside of the quill is slightly bent and you can see the bend as you rotate the spindle inside of the quill. There is no wobble in the spindle bearings, and the chuck end has no wobble at all.

For the electricity -- this is a dedicated 20A circuit with nothing else running on it, no extension cord. Floating sheave oiled and spin very freely. I will continue to observe the cirumstances by which the condition occurs under and report back - as I said it's only happened 1-2 times out of 20+ starts.

Thanks guys !!

[dusty]

Could the quill be binding enough to cause startup problems. I have never heard of this happening but....remove the quill and see if the symptoms persist.

If I had this problem, I would start by removing the drive belt from the motor and check startup with no load.

[wa2crk]

JPG just brought up a good point about the quill set screw. It should be a dog point set screw. When installed it should be run down to the bottom of the groove in the quill housing and then backed off about 1/8 of a turn. Use of the wrong type of screw will probably cause the burrs.
Bill V
PS the screw serves to prevent the quill housing from turning inside the headstock.

[jms]

Thanks everyone. The quill set screw must have been the original one, it was covered with a wax plug which was painted over in the original gray of the headstock.

Given the burr and the bent spline end of the drive shaft, I believe I'm going to replace the entire quill assy

I'll keep an eye on the slow operation and report back any findings, but it doesn't happen very often

[billmayo]

Do a good lubrication on the motor floating sheave. I found this to be the cause of various speed changes when stating the motor. You can not over oil this machine so use plenty of #10 air compressor or machine oil.