Can anyone identify whats wrong by this noise?

[thormxer]

New shopsmith owner. Just purchased 2 of them....a newer 510 and an older greenie (the 510 is much quieter). I purchased the old greenie with a broken gilmer belt and got a new belt on today. At first it ran nice and quiet, but after running about 15 minutes it started to make a bit of squeaking and clicking noises. Here is a video of it starting up, running at the slowest speed, and shutting down. Thanks for any help.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvkrZ_vjKOI[/youtube]

[everettdavis]

Check the clip that secures the control sheave button bearing to the quadrant

Check the Gilmer Clutch Assembly

Does the motor have a centrifugal start switch? If sound is ow the low end I would look there.

Pop the drive belt and spin up the motor.

Next rotate the quill by hand.

Looks like an A headstock with no rear inspection hole.

Wish I was in person.

Just some getting started notes.

Visually compare what you see to newer unit

Everett

[JPG]

It is a "B" headstock so it should have the 'inspection' hole under the SS badge on the back side(the side from which the video was created). No that is incorrect - see later post

I would examine all that you touched when replacing the gilmer belt. Starting with the idler shaft etc. and the drive sleeve.

Look first at the loop on the end of the control sheave as Everett suggested.

Did you oil the control and floating sheaves?

How did you tension the gilmer belt?

Minimal running with the belt cover off may help identify where it is coming from.

I say minimal since it may be in destruct mode.

[thormxer]

This is a very early model....I'll have to check tonight to get the exact year, but there is no inspection hole behind the badge and there isn't a clutch on the gilmer assembly.

There are no holes to oil the sheaves like my 510 has either.

I will take it apart this weekend and check the clip and belt tension. I did not realize this belt type needed to be adjusted while running, so I will also redo that procedure.

[everettdavis]

If you have a Gilmer Belt, You have a Gilmer Clutch mechanism.

If you have no inspection hole behind the SS Cover Plate, then it is a "A" series headstock. I could not tell for certain on my phone, but it looked like it had the wider casting sprue on the top. I wasn't sure.

Check out mickyd's post titled "Gilmer Drive System - Cleaning, inspecting, testing"

at http://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/viewt ... aee#p32871

It will resemble this inside....

Everett

Gilmer Clutch.png (64.41 KiB) Viewed 8620 times

It is supposed to engage, but slip if something really binds up when running stock etc. When it doesn't slip, and a bind occurs, the toothed gilmer belt will try to power through it anyway, and bad things happen

[thormxer]

Some posts I have read on here said the real early greenies didn't have a clutch so I was assuming that mine doesn't. I honestly didn't look that close when I put the new belt on. I will look closer tonight.

[JPG]

If you have a Gilmer Belt, You have a Gilmer Clutch mechanism.

If you have no inspection hole behind the SS Cover Plate, then it is a "A" series headstock. I could not tell for certain on my phone, but it looked like it had the wider casting sprue on the top. I wasn't sure.
. . .

My observation as well.

However my earlier statement is wrong. That indicates an "A" headstock and no access hole...

[everettdavis]

Some posts I have read on here said the real early greenies didn't have a clutch so I was assuming that mine doesn't. I honestly didn't look that close when I put the new belt on. I will look closer tonight.

The post that I linked that mickyd made after collaborating with one of my mentors, the late Bill Mayo, will really help you understand how to inspect, analyze and adjust the clutch if you have to.

I so miss my long talks with Bill Mayo. God rest his soul, and bless his loving wife Ann.

JPG is another of my mentors here, and his knowledge and experience is very valuable advice.

I can't say that there aren't any machines that had no clutch, only that I have never seen one. That said, I have one of the earliest "A" headstock units myself. Bill said it easily could have been among the first ever sand cast, not necessarily that it was among the earliest made as he and a number of others realized that some of the first cast went on the shelf, as they came out of the molds, and may have been used a bit later since they were likely first in last out in the batches cast.

Soon enough, they improved the molding process and went to an injection mold which allowed a much thinner casting sprue (that molding line across the top of the headstock), and they added the inspection port hole in the back.

Bill Mayo and I last discussed an idea I had run by him for installing a 4 inch screw-in plastic deck plate on the back of "A" headstocks and affixing the Inspection cover to the screw-in lid somewhat like the one I attached below which I could buy for less than $15.

Sadly Bill's health degradation accelerated and I did not embrace the project until he had a time to get better if he could.

Maybe it is something you might consider for yours and let us know how it works out. You would use a large metal hole saw at a slow speed to make that opening, the appropriate size for the deck plate you select.

It certainly would add more than $15 of value to the headstock in my mind.

Bill had abandoned modifying "A" headstocks and simply sold them for scrap metal as he had a copious supply of "B" or "C" headstocks he had aquired or could acquire on eBay etc. He chuckled when I shared it with him and said "I wonder why I never thought of that?"

Please take some photos and share what you find, and what you do. Many Gilmer drive systems are still in use today.

Everett

4 inch Screw-In Plastic Deck Plate.jpg (31.61 KiB) Viewed 8561 times

[thormxer]

I was actually contemplating cutting my own inspection hole, so that is funny you brought that up. I re-adjusted the belt according the the SS procedure for a gilmer belt and thought that was all that was wrong, but after it ran for a while the noises started to come back. I think the 2 drive sleeve bearings are making most (if not all) of the noise, so I will be replacing them at some point. Luckily this machine is just a backup machine so I'm not in any rush.

Serial number is 290060, so it looks like its a 1955 model. When did they add the clutch to the gilmer drive system?

[everettdavis]

Mickyd's Thread titled "Restoration Progress On My 1955 Greenie" SN: 309828 at http://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/viewt ... 634#p31634 is really important for your 1955 Greenie work. I suspect everything it that thread may be of great interest to you.

Your Mark 5 SN: 290060 was made a good bit earlier than Mickyd's which was 19,768 higher serial number than yours.

They made 28,437 units (288541 - 316978) in 1955 so yours was the 1519 th machine made, likely in mid January 1955 as their production averaged about 2370 units each month and Mickd's likely sometime in December 1955 assuming production for each month remained about the same.

As I have said before, to my knowledge, the Gilmer Drive was part of the origianl Mark 5 system as introduced in 1953. If I can find the Mark 5 Patent application, which I have seen before but don't know if I kept a copy, we can check to see if it was part of their submission, whether they patented that piece in the machine as new patent or used an existing clutch assembly patent.

Everett