obvious SS shortcomings?

[smartsailer]

respectfully, i wonder why some obvious shortcomings haven't been addressed by shopsmith in the past 50+ years. please comment.

1. larger table. this seems like the most consistent criticism among users and potential buyers. also, the unit only comes with one extension table but is often pictured multiple in place in advertisements. seems a bit misleading.

see:
http://toolmonger.com/wp-content/upload ... psmith.jpg

2. more powerful motor. has the motor seen any increase in power through the years? have there been motor failures with heavy use?

3. poor router solution. arguably the second most important tool in the woodshop. problems, firstly you cant use the units motor as a power source. secondly the fence seems incredibly small. anyone use the SS as a router? comments?

thanks.

[beeg]

The MKV does have a small table, if you want a larger one. Upgrade to the 510 or 520. It's been said that upgrade to the 520 is the better move. Since I have the 500, I can't say what people have problems with the 510 are.

[edflorence]

SmartSailer...

1. I have never found the table size to be a problem. Over the years I have owned a few different Mkv 500's and the one I have now is set up in what I consider the optimal configuration. I have two auxiliary tables, so I can set one up at either end and two front extension tables. Combine those tables with the SS cross-cut sled and table size is just not an issue.

2. The first few 500's I had were equipped with the 3/4 hp motor. The current one has the 1 1/8 hp. Seems to do just fine.

3. I have routed in drill press mode, using the router chuck, and it works fine if you have the patience for multiple shallow passes. Are there better ways to rout... probably. Does the SS advertise itself as a router? No.

And don't forget, the point of the whole exercise is multi-function in minimal space. Given that, the SS fills the bill pretty well, without much compromise.

[pinkiewerewolf]

You've received some great answers.
If you search the threads you will find that there are solutions to use a router in conjunction with the Mark V, Over head pin router, Pro Fence Router Table, and Shopsmith Router Table, though some of us don't use the headstock for a router it can be done.

The upgrade to a 505, 510, or 520 gives you a larger table, and in the case of the 510 and 520 it gives you the capability to arrange the table with extensions for wide/long lumber. It is highly versatile.

Check out the accessory catalog, it is Holiday Sale Time right now.

[dusty]

respectfully, i wonder why some obvious shortcomings haven't been addressed by shopsmith in the past 50+ years. please comment.

1. larger table. this seems like the most consistent criticism among users and potential buyers. also, the unit only comes with one extension table but is often pictured multiple in place in advertisements. seems a bit misleading.

see:
http://toolmonger.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/shopsmith.jpg

2. more powerful motor. has the motor seen any increase in power through the years? have there been motor failures with heavy use?

3. poor router solution. arguably the second most important tool in the woodshop. problems, firstly you cant use the units motor as a power source. secondly the fence seems incredibly small. anyone use the SS as a router? comments?

thanks.

Your comments seem a bit harsh so I checked your profile to see just where you are coming from. I was unable to learn that since your profile is basically blank.

What machine do you have, if you have any at all. From your comments, I would bet that you have a Mark V, Model 500 which does have a small table. This was the primary reason for why Shopsmith upgraded to a 510 (to increase table size).

Also, the 500 has a smaller motor unless it was ungraded by an owner along the way. The late model 510s have a larger motor. I find mine to be most adequate for all of the work I do. The only table saw I own is a Shopsmith.

Actually, I own an old Craftsman that I intend to put back in service for molding work later but it doesn't play into this discussion at all.

I would venture to say that most people who have problems with the 1 1/8 HP motor (the larger Shopsmith motor) actually don't have motor problems at all. What I suspect is that they are attempting to operate on a 110 VAC source that is brought to them on a long 14 gauge service run and are protected by a 15 amp circuit breaker. Upgrade to a 12 gauge service run and 20 amp breaker and all will be greatly improved.

Please, update your profile and get back with your comments and problems. Welcome to the forum. May your wood working days all be safe and many.

[beeg]

Your comments seem a bit harsh so I checked your profile to see just where you are coming from.

Whats harsh about the facts of a small table on the 500 and no motor HP increase in 50 years? I've used my 500 for routing and haven't had any problem. As far as showing the 520 in ads, when was the last time you saw an ad showing the basic model?

I have the MKV because there's no way I could have all of the equipment the SS does in my shop. If I did, it would all fit, but that's it (100 sq ft). I couldn't use any of them. And ya know IF I had a bigger shop, I probably STILL just have a SS, might go with the 520 then.

[dusty]

Whats harsh about the facts of a small table on the 500 and no motor HP increase in 50 years? I've used my 500 for routing and haven't had any problem. As far as showing the 520 in ads, when was the last time you saw an ad showing the basic model?

I have the MKV because there's no way I could have all of the equipment the SS does in my shop. If I did, it would all fit, but that's it (100 sq ft). I couldn't use any of them. And ya know IF I had a bigger shop, I probably STILL just have a SS, might go with the 520 then.

Okay, the comments were not really harsh.

respectfully, i wonder why some obvious shortcomings haven't been addressed by shopsmith in the past 50+ years. please comment.

I was just trying to point out that these shortcomings have been addressed.

[reible]

Hi, glad to have you here. I would say that 99% of the people on this forum are people who love shopsmith tools. As such we are very bias towards the good things that the shopsmith does for us. I have owned one since 1976 and have done so so many projects. A lot of those years were spent with the basic 500 model and yes the table was small, but it never held me back from doing what I wanted with it. I waited for a lot of years before I used another amazing feature of shopsmith, that being it is upgradeable. You can take the 500 and make it into a 520!

respectfully, i wonder why some obvious shortcomings haven't been addressed by shopsmith in the past 50+ years. please comment.

The shopsmith has evolved a lot from the old external belt drive made in the late 40's (keep in mind the new shopsmith company started in 1972). The basic 500 model ran from 1953 until 1960 (think green). This had a 3/4 hp motor and gilmer drive system all enclosed in the head stock.

In the 1969 to 1963 the brown/gold/tan years the belt system went to a serpentine poly-v drive. In 1962 the motor was upgraded to the 1-1/8hp.

By 1964 the current poly-V is standard and the shopsmith went out of production.

As mentioned before things started back up in 1972... in 1985 the model 510 was introduced... addressing the table size and expandability issues. In 1991 the "C" headstock came out (think red safety switch). In 1996 the 510 became the primary model.

Of couse the flag ship now is the 520 with what is called the pro fence system.

1. larger table. this seems like the most consistent criticism among users and potential buyers. also, the unit only comes with one extension table but is often pictured multiple in place in advertisements. seems a bit misleading.

The present design has a table that is 17-1/2 x 22 (old 500 was 14 x 18-3/8) and the use of the rail system to expand to 102" left/right workspace. The system has one extension table and two floating extension tables. This image you point to shows this.

see:
http://toolmonger.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/shopsmith.jpg

2. more powerful motor. has the motor seen any increase in power through the years? have there been motor failures with heavy use?

I have never had a motor problem in what is it now 32 years... and I don't think that is any where near a record. The motor draws 13.5A which allows it to work almost any where in a modern home with 12GA wire and 20A circuit breakers. It is a 1-1/8HP that developes in the order of 2HP, keep in mind many manufactures only tell you developed HP. It is also a variable speed system so you can lower your speed to say rip larger lumber, this provides more HP to the cut, most saws can't do that.

3. poor router solution. arguably the second most important tool in the woodshop. problems, firstly you cant use the units motor as a power source. secondly the fence seems incredibly small. anyone use the SS as a router? comments?

I have used the shopsmith in router position many many years ago and was not happy with it. However some love it for doing materials like cherry or for mortising. Keep in mind I also feel if you have less then about 10 routers in your shop you are not a router user. As was mentioned the shopsmith does have various solutions that make use of handheld routers which work very well.

You mentioned the fence, the 520 fence is about as stocky a fence as I've ever seen... have a look see at that and I think you will find it is one of the best stock fences on the market.

thanks.

If you have the time go out to my photo site and have a look around. Feel free to ask questions about any thing you see there and most of the 602 photos are shopsmith related. See if you can see the photo of the setup I use when I want a long front to back table, about 86" as I recall, and all things that you can purchase from shopsmith to do it.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/12199425@N02/sets/

Ed

[foxtrapper]

By no means is the shopsmith the perfect tool. Table size and depth of cut adjustments are two big gripes I have. But, by virtue of the multi-function aspect of the machine, it's a problem that cannot be fixed.

A larger main table on a 500 simply means more flexing on the vertical tubes it perches on. This isn't an improvement. You need the whole top work surface stable. Enter the extension table(s). That brings the challenge of getting everything lined up so you don't get your board uneven. So be it. Honestly, for me, I can live with it as I don't use it as a table saw all that much. If I really needed a table saw, I'd go buy a dedicated one.

The lack of power isn't a problem for me. In bandsaw or drill or lathe mode, the power is quite adequate. Power is low for a table saw, but that really hasn't troubled me. It means I have to keep my blades darn sharp, and not feed aggressively. OK, both are good habits to develop. The low power on the tablesaw has also meant it can't kick uncontrollably at me. I can keep the board under control when I do something stupid.

[ryanbp01]

Foxtrapper-

I have the 520 and I have had no issues feeding larger stock through it than I have had with any other table saw. I am confused, however, by your comment about the way tubes flexing. About the only situation that I can think of that comes to me would be using the Shopsmith as a sawmill, something the Shopsmith wasn't designed for. While there might be some improvements that could be made (having the lift-assist as part of the standard package is one that comes to mind), there are also issues with having stand-alone equipment, such as the large footprint such machines have in the shop. Many, if not most of us either have a small shop, or use our garage for a shop when needed. The limitation of space, coupled with the power the Shopsmith affords is fantastic.

One issue you have mentioned is the table. Since the table can be removed in order to take advantage of the lathe component, if the table were any larger it would prove to be difficult to remove and impossible if the table were of cast iron. With the floating extension tables and 5' connector tubes the table size question becomes moot. In an earlier sawdust session, Nick also showed the various configurations you can use the extension tables in. Try doing that with stand-alone equipment!

I believe there are some things that Shopsmith could improve with concerning their machinery. However, I believe the same could be said for any other type of woodworking equipemt you would care to name. I have yet to see any type of equipment which is perfectly designed. But when it comes to versatility, I would challenge you to come up with a tool that can do everything the Shopsmith can do, given the limited amount of space.

BPR